Me and my sniper buddy are currently trying to find or design a custom load bearing vest for use during and urban stalk. The vest needs to be able to carry essintial gear including but not limited to; Ammo, Log Book, Spotting scope/Bino's, water, Calculator, Radio, First Aid kit, Tools, and any other gear that is deemed essintial for the mission. Most of our call outs so far have been primararly observation and information gathering and the average duration is about 6-8hrs. As you can guess I spend alot of time in the prone position and lying on all my gear does not apeal to me. If anyone has any ideas or has solved the problem already please let me know. We have ruck sacks and they are just too bulky for a close in stalk. We have been using smaller bags and have had good luck. The bag is just a little too noisy and can snag on just about anything. Thanks yor your time and experience.

[This message has been edited by trigger1 (edited 01-28-2001).]

Try a small military rucksack. You can carry everything you mentioned plus more. You can add extra custom pockets on the sides for specific items you want easy access to like binos, range finder, spotting scope. Everything else goes inside (food, wet weather gear, cold weather gear, log book, extra batteries for radio, flashlight, etc.)

You should be able to find a small military rucksack at any decent military surplus store for around $20. This sure beats $150 for a vest. Make sure its a small ruck to keep the weight and your signature down. A med or large is way more room than you need to 8 hrs.

Snip1er gives good advise, a vest is for stand up CQB. On a stalk it plain suc...stinks, vests tend to put everything on you chest. You crawl on your chest, you should be firing prone unless you have a very solid rest allowing otherwise. Another bad feature is while crawling the pockets tend to scoop up trash and debris getting your gear totaly FUBAR. The vests go good on entry people, looks good on the news, not shooters. If you dump your ruck for the FFP stalk the Eagle/BlackHawk drag bag has room for almost anything you would want to take including some yummy MREs I don't understand the popularity of vests, they are not that good for anything but when standing up. They are very ridgid as to what you can carry, they get in the way of proper positioning of a long arm at the shoulder, they interfere with most extraction harnesses. Using a properly set up standard LBE set you have none of theses problems and can change it to suit your mission.

With your time frame of 6-8 hours a **** pack would give you more than enough room for an OP, including room for some snacks and such. Combined with a couple mag pouches for ammo, two 1 qt canteens or water bladder, you'd be good to go. As the mission changes add/remove the pouches not needed add those needed. these would be in your ruck mentioned by snip1er.

Take care...Jim

Gotta love those auto censors the ****pack refers to the small nylon pack that fits to the back of your war belt...a **** pack

[This message has been edited by JY (edited 01-29-2001).]

Not sure if this is any help, but here is a site that will make custom Tactical armored vests. I’ve seen some of their stuff and it seems to be top rate. http://www.armacelarmorcorp.com/ArmacelMain1.html

Marc

I'm not sure if they're available to civilians and if they are, I'm sure they're not cheap, but the new moly system seems ideal. It is totally designed to be customizable. You can put stuff just about anywhere you want and the new snap system is a lot more comfortable than alice clips. I've not actually used one, but my friend, a marine, has and loves it.

Hanzo

I appreciate all of your advice thanks

You can also check out U.S. Tactical Supply at http://www.ustacticalsupply.com/ for both custom made packs and vests. If you call or email, ask for Kevin Swanson then tell him we sent you. I guarantee he will take extra good care of your needs! If he doesn't have what you are looking for, he will custom build it.

One thing that I have seen Police Snipers use here in place of a small ruck is a 3 pocket Eagle Hydration Pack. LIQUA-PAK III (DHSC-W/3P). This offers ample space for the stuff you are gonna need on a 6-8 hour call out. That and with the accessories that attach to it such as a 20 round ammo pouch like is simple and compact. You can put a rangefinder/binocs in the first pocket, Rations in the second and other little items. and there is still a 3rd pocket dor other items. All while holding 110 oz. of water. Just a thought. Sethro Out.

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What packs do you all prefer to carry your gear in and why?

A large military ruck sack with a few modifications for carry of related items. Why? because its issued, strong, and I don't see a reason to switch.

I suggest you go to http://www.snipersparadise.com/vendors/UST...tical/index.htm to see some of the modifications.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: snip1er ]

Thanks. I have a large ALICE and I am very happy with it. Just wanted to see if anybody found anything they liked better.

I use a large Alice pack and am happy. My partner uses LBE and a small Alice pack. His stuff seems a little lighter and better distributed. Mine works and is ok by me. If anybody has the "perfect" set-up for mostly urban situations please post it I am always looking for better ideas.

Hey fellas, not to go against the grain, but I would like to recommend anyone looking at packs, take a look at some of the higher end internal frame mountaineering packs by companies like Arc'Teryx, and Lowe Alpine.

I carried a large ruck around for years, and don't get me wrong, it served its purpose. However, when I was transferred to the Rec. Detachment in Garmisch, Ger. I was given a JanSport Spire 90, 5500 cubic inches, and had pockets at the bottom corners for carrying skiis, lots of attachment points for other things. Ont thing I noticed is that the pack keeps everything perfectly distributed while climbing over scree and steep slopes. It also lends itself well to being on rappel. These packs are also a lot less bulky and have greater access to your necessities, and will stay water tight for years to come....If I am not mistaken the military CFP90 is made by Lowe Alpine....and these packs may run a little less than a large ruck with all the tricks...Important note is that the ski carrier pulls double duty as a place to carry your delicate sniper weapon system tucked in and snugged away from harm, lol.....Thanks Bruce

Have used the Medium Alice,
Have used the Large Alice,
and like Bruce, have used the LOWE,
and Now have a CFP 90.
The CFP 90 has the internal frame and is much
more comfortable than ANY Alice, can carry more and it rides so well. The Alice's shift in rough terrain and you do have to tie gear on an Alice.
We use a 3 pocket Camelback for day trips,
We use a medium Alice with no frame for 2-3 day trips, and
a CFP90 for long hard details.
No one pack will work for all things.
JW