Dear SP
First off I would like to thank you for the great website. I recently purchased a Remington heavy barreled .308 varment gun, with a laminated stock, you know, the ugly orangish-brown colored one. I was wanting to make it into a sniper rifle, however everyone is telling me to get rid of it and purchase a 700 pss in the same caliber. My qestion is this: is it realy worth it for me to start with a new rifle, is there a difference between the two? I know I can get a H S percision stock to put on the gun I have for around $200.00 bucks, or is there allot more to it than that. Please understand that I want to build the best rifle that I can for the money, and if that means starting with the 700 pss than thats what I will do. I have also heard that finding a new 700 PSS will be difficult, as they are not being sold to the public, is this true??? Thank you for youre help. any will be greatly appreciated. P.S. Im also gonna go with the Tasco Super Sniper 10X scope, what do you thing about this choice?? Thank you Billy Bell
billiambjb@yahoo.com
[ 04-07-2001: Message edited by: snip1er ]
Full Version: Rem 700 VS
Good questions! 
our webmaster told us you may be posting so I have been watching the board. Some people email us but refuse to post here so they don't get their questions answered so I am glad you posted!
First off, tell "everyone" that they don't know what they are talking about. The VSS rifle is great starter and can do everything and become everything that the PSS can. There is alot more to it than just putting a new stock on it, but it's a start. Depending on what you want to spend of course how far you can take it. Then you have to decide if the oney is worth the end accuracy gain.
With the VSS you can expect 1/2 - 3/4 moa out of the box with GOOD MATCH ammo. Try the Black Hills .308 175 match at around $325 for 500 rnds or the Federal Gold Match for around $375 for 500 rnds. A stock PSS can expect the same accuracy.
If you are looking at HS stocks, look at the "tactical" version with the adjustable cheek piece and adjustable buttstock. Cost should be around $400. A modification or two will/may need to be made to this to ensure the adjustable pieces don;t adjust themselves while when you don't want them too, but those are very minor. A PSS stock will cost you $250+ new and $200 used. Check the "For Sale" section here on the Q&A board for one.
Next you will want to replace the barrel. There are many options here and cost will be around $300 for the barrel and another $180 for a RIFLESMITH to properly install it. Yes many gunsmiths can put on a barrel but only a good riflesmith knows how to do it so it shoots great.
While the rifle is in for the barrel change, go ahead and have them true the action. You may also want to have a steel trigger guard installed and cost here is around $250 plus labor.
One option is someone like HS precision. They will build a completely new rifle on your VSS action for $1500. This includes all parts and labor (stock, barrel, etc.) There are other companies that off the same thing and others can post those companies if they know of them.
The scope is a separate issue..
our webmaster told us you may be posting so I have been watching the board. Some people email us but refuse to post here so they don't get their questions answered so I am glad you posted!First off, tell "everyone" that they don't know what they are talking about. The VSS rifle is great starter and can do everything and become everything that the PSS can. There is alot more to it than just putting a new stock on it, but it's a start. Depending on what you want to spend of course how far you can take it. Then you have to decide if the oney is worth the end accuracy gain.
With the VSS you can expect 1/2 - 3/4 moa out of the box with GOOD MATCH ammo. Try the Black Hills .308 175 match at around $325 for 500 rnds or the Federal Gold Match for around $375 for 500 rnds. A stock PSS can expect the same accuracy.
If you are looking at HS stocks, look at the "tactical" version with the adjustable cheek piece and adjustable buttstock. Cost should be around $400. A modification or two will/may need to be made to this to ensure the adjustable pieces don;t adjust themselves while when you don't want them too, but those are very minor. A PSS stock will cost you $250+ new and $200 used. Check the "For Sale" section here on the Q&A board for one.
Next you will want to replace the barrel. There are many options here and cost will be around $300 for the barrel and another $180 for a RIFLESMITH to properly install it. Yes many gunsmiths can put on a barrel but only a good riflesmith knows how to do it so it shoots great.
While the rifle is in for the barrel change, go ahead and have them true the action. You may also want to have a steel trigger guard installed and cost here is around $250 plus labor.
One option is someone like HS precision. They will build a completely new rifle on your VSS action for $1500. This includes all parts and labor (stock, barrel, etc.) There are other companies that off the same thing and others can post those companies if they know of them.
The scope is a separate issue..
Billy Bell
Your rem .308 varment gun is a great start for a sniper rifle just as Snip1er has to say. Myself I would shoot it as is and up grade as money promits in the fallowing order. get the stock beded properly first, then the trigger is a crisp 2lbs no creap, next the barrel when it gets tierd and the action trued at the same time, this is the expenive one so it later after you practiced shooting and it what holding you back. I find the rifle is cheap compared to the optics you put on the rifle. The last one payed two to three time the price of the rifle for the optics and the mounting sytem, it wasn't a tasco. My advice take it slow and buy the best you can aford in all the areas and know your gun, this is the big one.
shoot true and have fun.
Cliffy
Your rem .308 varment gun is a great start for a sniper rifle just as Snip1er has to say. Myself I would shoot it as is and up grade as money promits in the fallowing order. get the stock beded properly first, then the trigger is a crisp 2lbs no creap, next the barrel when it gets tierd and the action trued at the same time, this is the expenive one so it later after you practiced shooting and it what holding you back. I find the rifle is cheap compared to the optics you put on the rifle. The last one payed two to three time the price of the rifle for the optics and the mounting sytem, it wasn't a tasco. My advice take it slow and buy the best you can aford in all the areas and know your gun, this is the big one.
shoot true and have fun.
Cliffy
One thing that irks me is the term "sniper rifle" or "tactical" being applied to any heavy barrel rifle. That being said lets get to the rifle.
Everyone that told you to get rid of it doesn't know what they are talking about. Apparently they think a coat of black paint magically confers some mystical accuracy on a rifle.
The PSS is basically the heavy barrel varminter in an H&S stock with a paint job and a steeper price tag. The laminated stock is nearly as stable as the fiberglass stock so you haven't really lost out on anything there.
Rather than loose sleep over the rifle, you should figure out what makes the rifle tick as is. Out of the box it probably shoots as well as you do.
I would seriously consider firelapping any factory barrel. If G. David Tubb firelaps his match rifle barrels, it sure won't hurt a stock Remington barrel and will probably help the break in process and improve accuracy.
Scope rings. Unless you are using the Burris Signature rings, you should lap your scope rings. Even factory rifles are invariably a couple of thousandths of when they drill and tap the mount holes and you don't want to tweak you new scope. I think about half the scope problems I hear about are caused by poor mounting and installation.
The new synthetic stock are torqued to 65 inch pounds, which is okay, but I prefer about 50 inch pounds. In a laminated wood stock,I would loosen the action screws and retorque to between 35 and 45 INCH POUNDS. The reason I put that in caps is because around here someone recently put a ft-lb torque wrench to an action and had the expected results.
Don't mess with the stock trigger. I don't like the floating connector in the Remington trigger that much and you would be better off with a Jewell or Shilen trigger. NOT the 2 oz. target trigger which is only suitable for bench shooting and has no safety. Yes, Holland makes a spring kit to adjust the stock trigger but it should ONLY be installed by a really good gunsmith that understands Remington triggers. You're still stuck with the floating connector though.
Now, develop a load. I am fond of IMR powders, Nosler bullets and Winchester primers. I find Winchester brass to be better than Remington, Federal brass a little more uniform, and Lapua brass to be the best. Good handloading should take you to or slightly under 1/2 moa.
The next step would be the new barrel, stock and blueprinting the action. All of that doesn't mean a thing if you don't learn how to use it.
Every so often out at the range some young guys come out with their new whiz-bangs and get their clocks cleaned by an old man with and equally old rifle. The rifles he uses are usually an old M-70 Target Rifle in .308 in a plain old walnut stock, or a custom Obendorfer Mauser in 25-06 with a home made walnut stock. The gent shooting it was one of the best competitive shooters in the country in his day. Lets just say it's no contest.
The benchrest boys shut their mouths when challanged to a little more yardage than they are used to too. So it isn't all the gun.
Finally, if you really want to master marksmanship, try accurate shooting at 100 and 200 yards with a 22 rimfire.
[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 01-03-2001).]
Everyone that told you to get rid of it doesn't know what they are talking about. Apparently they think a coat of black paint magically confers some mystical accuracy on a rifle.
The PSS is basically the heavy barrel varminter in an H&S stock with a paint job and a steeper price tag. The laminated stock is nearly as stable as the fiberglass stock so you haven't really lost out on anything there.
Rather than loose sleep over the rifle, you should figure out what makes the rifle tick as is. Out of the box it probably shoots as well as you do.
I would seriously consider firelapping any factory barrel. If G. David Tubb firelaps his match rifle barrels, it sure won't hurt a stock Remington barrel and will probably help the break in process and improve accuracy.
Scope rings. Unless you are using the Burris Signature rings, you should lap your scope rings. Even factory rifles are invariably a couple of thousandths of when they drill and tap the mount holes and you don't want to tweak you new scope. I think about half the scope problems I hear about are caused by poor mounting and installation.
The new synthetic stock are torqued to 65 inch pounds, which is okay, but I prefer about 50 inch pounds. In a laminated wood stock,I would loosen the action screws and retorque to between 35 and 45 INCH POUNDS. The reason I put that in caps is because around here someone recently put a ft-lb torque wrench to an action and had the expected results.
Don't mess with the stock trigger. I don't like the floating connector in the Remington trigger that much and you would be better off with a Jewell or Shilen trigger. NOT the 2 oz. target trigger which is only suitable for bench shooting and has no safety. Yes, Holland makes a spring kit to adjust the stock trigger but it should ONLY be installed by a really good gunsmith that understands Remington triggers. You're still stuck with the floating connector though.
Now, develop a load. I am fond of IMR powders, Nosler bullets and Winchester primers. I find Winchester brass to be better than Remington, Federal brass a little more uniform, and Lapua brass to be the best. Good handloading should take you to or slightly under 1/2 moa.
The next step would be the new barrel, stock and blueprinting the action. All of that doesn't mean a thing if you don't learn how to use it.
Every so often out at the range some young guys come out with their new whiz-bangs and get their clocks cleaned by an old man with and equally old rifle. The rifles he uses are usually an old M-70 Target Rifle in .308 in a plain old walnut stock, or a custom Obendorfer Mauser in 25-06 with a home made walnut stock. The gent shooting it was one of the best competitive shooters in the country in his day. Lets just say it's no contest.
The benchrest boys shut their mouths when challanged to a little more yardage than they are used to too. So it isn't all the gun.
Finally, if you really want to master marksmanship, try accurate shooting at 100 and 200 yards with a 22 rimfire.
[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 01-03-2001).]
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