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Tactical Scopes

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seppos View Member Profile	Dec 17 2004, 0:57 Post #31
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 170 Joined: 21-November 2003 Member No.: 3,546 Rifle:Sako TRG 42 Optics:zeiss 3.12X56T Ammo:.338 Lapua Mag	Halo.... Put some brakes!!! In the test peace 4-16X50 PMII they had some 0.01 mrad side movement of the reticle while adjusting the windage.... so it is about 10 cm from 1000 meters... In 3-12X50 it was even worse... 0.03 mrad... 30 cm in 1000m ... no more headshots from the 1K... (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/sterb323.gif) They only had couple of samples per model... but this test really wrecks the world in this community... S

seppos View Member Profile	Dec 18 2004, 11:13 Post #32
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 170 Joined: 21-November 2003 Member No.: 3,546 Rifle:Sako TRG 42 Optics:zeiss 3.12X56T Ammo:.338 Lapua Mag	At this point I could say that some of the high end scopes had pritty serious flaws in them... 1 mrad change of elevation while adjusting the windage...!!! That is 1m from 1000m!!!! (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) And the worst in this is that these models are in active use... Of cource there was only few scopes per model, but it really makes wonder.... S

david1.0 View Member Profile	Dec 18 2004, 14:08 Post #33
Member Group: Registered Posts: 89 Joined: 20-October 2001 From: Paris Member No.: 523 Rifle:Steyr SSG-police Optics:Nightforce NXS Ammo:7-08	QUOTE (seppos @ Dec 18 2004, 17:13) At this point I could say that some of the high end scopes had pritty serious flaws in them... 1 mrad change of elevation while adjusting the windage...!!! That is 1m from 1000m!!!! (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) And the worst in this is that these models are in active use... Of cource there was only few scopes per model, but it really makes wonder.... S Hensoltd; zeiss ? What about nightforce scope performance ? This post has been edited by david1.0: Dec 18 2004, 14:11

One-Eyed Jack View Member Profile	Dec 18 2004, 16:24 Post #34
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 223 Joined: 17-October 2004 From: San Francisco Bay Area Member No.: 6,565 Rifle:GAP Rock, Sako TRG-42, Blaser R93T Optics:USO, Zeiss, Hensoldt, Leupold, S&B Ammo:.223 Rem, .308 Win, .338LM	You'd better start learning to read Finnish!! (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/read.gif) If anyone does and gets hold of a copy of the initial article, please summarize the salient points for us. (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

FUZ1ON View Member Profile	Dec 18 2004, 16:56 Post #35
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 102 Joined: 12-December 2004 Member No.: 7,084 Rifle:BAR-10 Optics:Nikon Tactical 4-16X50 Ammo:FGMM 175gr Sierra MatchKing	QUOTE (david1.0 @ Dec 18 2004, 15:08) QUOTE (seppos @ Dec 18 2004, 17:13) At this point I could say that some of the high end scopes had pritty serious flaws in them... 1 mrad change of elevation while adjusting the windage...!!! That is 1m from 1000m!!!! (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/crying.gif) And the worst in this is that these models are in active use... Of cource there was only few scopes per model, but it really makes wonder.... S Hensoltd; zeiss ? What about nightforce scope performance ? It sounds to me like a classic case of the reticle cross-hairs not being precisely sqared and leveled unto the rifles bore...or???.....a "shooter/canting" issue...as "Typically" those are the only two conditions that would yeild an elevation delta during windage manuvers or visa-versa. L8R, Bill. (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

seppos View Member Profile	Dec 18 2004, 18:23 Post #36
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 170 Joined: 21-November 2003 Member No.: 3,546 Rifle:Sako TRG 42 Optics:zeiss 3.12X56T Ammo:.338 Lapua Mag	In the test they used a Hensoldt test collimator a high quality test optic to determin the flaws inside the optic... This will cause a riot but that 1mrad flaw was in Mark4 4.5-14X50 LR/T M1 Most likely it was in one end of the range... When you have the adjustment near the end the inner tube might touch the outer one causing this... The europeans did not have any significant flaws... In nightforce the horisontal movement was some 0.2 mrad while adjusting the elevation... Only 20 cm from 1K.... S

seppos View Member Profile	Dec 18 2004, 18:28 Post #37
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 170 Joined: 21-November 2003 Member No.: 3,546 Rifle:Sako TRG 42 Optics:zeiss 3.12X56T Ammo:.338 Lapua Mag	Sorry.... exept the regular S&B:s.... They had some... S

seppos View Member Profile	Dec 22 2004, 10:30 Post #38
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 170 Joined: 21-November 2003 Member No.: 3,546 Rifle:Sako TRG 42 Optics:zeiss 3.12X56T Ammo:.338 Lapua Mag	Heard some stories about the scedule of publishing of this scope test in the States.... According those the article will be published in "annual" issue of some tac magazine... So everybody knows when it will hapen next time.... (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) S

david1.0 View Member Profile	Dec 28 2004, 15:50 Post #39
Member Group: Registered Posts: 89 Joined: 20-October 2001 From: Paris Member No.: 523 Rifle:Steyr SSG-police Optics:Nightforce NXS Ammo:7-08	How IOR scope have perform in the test ? I am going to buy a scope, and have to choose between Nightforce and IOR. Could you help me... This post has been edited by david1.0: Dec 28 2004, 16:11

seppos View Member Profile	Dec 29 2004, 2:22 Post #40
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 170 Joined: 21-November 2003 Member No.: 3,546 Rifle:Sako TRG 42 Optics:zeiss 3.12X56T Ammo:.338 Lapua Mag	At this point I have to say that in the test there was only few scopes/model/maker... so one should use some critisism while making conclutions out from it... BUT.... IOR: 4-14X50 small impuritys in lenses and some traces of clue inside the tube. The magnification was not correct for the ranging: the correct reading came with +10X magnification.... Minor problem if you know it but gives you errors in ranging if not known... In elevation the reticle moved 0.1mrad horisontaly... With windage the error was 0.2 mrad vertically.. In reticle there was 0.1vertical and 0.2mrad horisontal bending... (Might affect the ranging) 6-24X50 the quality was a bit better but the correct reading for the reticle was with 11X instead of 10X... with windage there was 0.1 mrad vertical movement while adjusting the windage... 0.1 mrad vertical bending in the reticle... S

david1.0 View Member Profile	Dec 29 2004, 14:57 Post #41
Member Group: Registered Posts: 89 Joined: 20-October 2001 From: Paris Member No.: 523 Rifle:Steyr SSG-police Optics:Nightforce NXS Ammo:7-08	What about Nightforce ? Could you give us the name of the american magazine where the test will be published . Thank you

seppos View Member Profile	Dec 30 2004, 3:22 Post #42
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 170 Joined: 21-November 2003 Member No.: 3,546 Rifle:Sako TRG 42 Optics:zeiss 3.12X56T Ammo:.338 Lapua Mag	In nightforce NXS 5.5-22X56 Mildot there was some 0.2 mil shift in vindage while adjusting the elevation... The MLR model did not have any flaws in the adjustment. In lenses of the nightforces there where some microscopic "bubbles" but the differences with the premium ones: Zeiss,Hensoldt,S&B:s ingluding Horus/Bender and Nightforce where said to be merely marginal... What comes to the article in the states... That I can not say, due to the fact that I do not know where and when it will be published... I have heard only rumours that they will be published, and that it will be an annual issue... So it propably will be out in the end of 2005.... S

AZDoug View Member Profile	Jan 6 2005, 1:06 Post #43
PFC Group: Registered Posts: 37 Joined: 14-November 2004 Member No.: 6,792 Rifle:Savage 10FP 7.62X51, Modified Optics:Nightforce NXS 3.5X15X56 Ammo:BH 168 gr, moly	QUOTE (seppos @ Dec 30 2004, 2:22) In nightforce NXS 5.5-22X56 Mildot there was some 0.2 mil shift in vindage while adjusting the elevation... The MLR model did not have any flaws in the adjustment. Please pardon my ignorance, but what is the MLR? next question: is this just a different reticle, or is there some structural difference in the NXS MLR scope? Is the difference between the .2 mil shift, and no shift between the two scopes attributable to the MLR in and of itself, or was one scope just a little looser than the other due to QC issues? Thanks, Doug

Flea View Member Profile	Jan 6 2005, 5:44 Post #44
Master Flea Group: Staff Moderators Posts: 5,875 Joined: 29-November 2003 From: South Central Virginia Member No.: 3,596 Rifle:1 Sako TRG22/1 McMillan Tactical 300wm/ 1- 308 custom w/A-5 McMillan stock, 1, PSS Optics:1 3.5x15x50 NF NXS, IOR 10X Ammo:Handloads/M 118 LR	Doug, I'm not sure about the structural differences, but the MLR, stand for Mil line reticle. It's like the IOR MP-8. In stead of having mildots, it has stadia lines, and like the IOR MP-8 it also has the 1/2 mil line, making it faster to range. I have one of the new NF, with the MLR reticle. 5.5x22x50, it's not as clear as my IOR's but it had the power range I was looking for and the MOA adjustment I needed. My IOR 16x's are great with 100 MOA of adjustment but with my eye's getting very old, I needed more power at 1000 yds and beyond. IOR has a 6x24x50, but it only has 58 MOA, I was afraid I would not have enough adjustment, with a 308. Plus the 35 mm tube seem so big. LOL, I guess it will be like the 30 mm when they first came out. Everyone thought they were huge, until the started useing them.

Riedog View Member Profile View Member Albums	Jan 6 2005, 7:05 Post #45
SGT Group: Bronze Membership Posts: 648 Joined: 8-May 2004 From: Ft. Meade Member No.: 5,546 Rifle:Savage 10FP Optics:IOR Valdada Ammo:.308	QUOTE (seppos @ Dec 29 2004, 10:22) At this point I have to say that in the test there was only few scopes/model/maker... so one should use some critisism while making conclutions out from it... BUT.... IOR: 4-14X50 small impuritys in lenses and some traces of clue inside the tube. The magnification was not correct for the ranging: the correct reading came with +10X magnification.... Minor problem if you know it but gives you errors in ranging if not known... In elevation the reticle moved 0.1mrad horisontaly... With windage the error was 0.2 mrad vertically.. In reticle there was 0.1vertical and 0.2mrad horisontal bending... (Might affect the ranging) 6-24X50 the quality was a bit better but the correct reading for the reticle was with 11X instead of 10X... with windage there was 0.1 mrad vertical movement while adjusting the windage... 0.1 mrad vertical bending in the reticle... so on the IOR's you tested a RFP not a FFP model???

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