The 6mm Remington was too good to die Options

[Guest_Schmidt_Rubin_*]

http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/6mm_r...gton/index.html

This is a pretty good article on the cartridge, more velocity and longer barrel life than the .243 but it still didn't survive.

This post has been edited by Schmidt_Rubin: Jul 5 2005, 21:44

[green 788]

The author correctly pointed out that the 6mm Rem had more barrel life than the .240 Wby Mag--not than the .243 win. The .243 would have the barrel life advantage simply because it burns less powder (and the author even mentions this later in the piece).

I find it hard to believe that Warren Page would recommend the 6mm Rem over the .243 win. The .243 seems a more efficient cartridge, getting similar (if not the same) velocities with less powder. Folks who are wildcatting the 6mm-250 are seeing this same advantage over the .243 win as well--less powder used for the same velocity with a given bullet.

And there's another wildcat coming to the front that might be good for Remington to take a look at. It's the 6mm Dasher. It'll hang with, and even outperform the .243 win, and use less powder in the process.

Shorter cartridges which use less powder are not only easier on barrels, but they produce less recoil for a given velocity with a given bullet. Cartridges which produce less recoil are generally more accurate, as the shooter doesn't have to be so diligent in his recoil control, and flinch tendencies are mitigated to a degree.

So Remington could get the last laugh on Winchester by picking up either the 6mm-250 (a necked up 22-250, which itself was a necked down 250 Savage (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ), and start eating into the .243 win market.

I do not agree that the 6mm Remington can offer any real world advantages over the .243 win. To the contrary, it has significant disadvantages (worse barrel life, more recoil with a given bullet and speed, compounded now by rarity of brass and rifle offerings) which explain well enough why it is where it is. It isn't a bad cartridge--don't get me wrong--it's just obvious to me why it did not "make it."

The 220 Swift is in this same category; it's finding its advocates fewer and fewer as the 22-250 eats farther and farther into that niche.

And so... the 6mm Remington is to the .243 what the 220 Swift is to the 22-250. The market has voted in each case, and the slightly larger cartridge has been marginalized in favor of better efficiency with no practical difference in what each will do.

Dan

[Guest_Schmidt_Rubin_*]

I had heard the .243 Win burns real hot, most fat cartridges with a small bullet usually do. I've read a few articles where the authors claim the 6mm Rem is a better cartridge.

http://www.ranrrc.org/tech/BarrelLife.htm

This post has been edited by Schmidt_Rubin: Jul 6 2005, 10:09

[Jimro]

If you handload all bets are off.

But which is really the better cartrige? Depends on which one you shoot better. Same argument for the 30-06 and 308 win. Handloaders can really make any cartrige shine.

I think the biggest advantage the 6mm Remington has is only that it is based on the x57 Mauser brass, so it loads easier in a Mauser 98 action than the 243 does. Of course not everyone here has the Mauser bug, so such a distinction is inconsequential when there is a plethora of short action 700's and Savage Model 10's about for a sweet little 243 deer or varmit rifle.

After all, who needs controlled round feed for deer?

Just my 2 cents

Jimro

[Guest_Schmidt_Rubin_*]

7x57's and 8x57's were tried and proven in full auto and bolt action rifles, and served millions of men well in combat. I think any variation of the parent cartridge would only spell success. The .308 being the parent cartridge for the .243 gave it more American appeal and became more popular. The longer neck of the 6mm gives a better seating which puts all of the charge behind the bullet, the .243 has space between the shoulder and the base of the bullet. With the cartridge laying horizontal in the chamber how does powder beside the bullet help?

[green 788]

Good point about the parent cartridge having a "bootstrap" effect. I agree there.

As far as the bullet being pushed into the powder column, that's inconsequential. The powder burns, at least in part, in the throat and bore, so the effect on the bullet is pretty much the same.

If you load the .308 with high BC bullets like the 175 grain Matchking, much of the bullet is deep into the powder column--but accuracy is excellent, as we know. (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Dan

[riergarde]

I've been checking out these rounds. Working on a new upper, the 6x45mm and selling my 5.56 upper.

Also looking at the 243wssm to replace my 300wm. It's said it will do all the .308/300wm will do, and raise the % of hits doing it.

[Guest_Schmidt_Rubin_*]

I was looking at the Super Shorts also but only Browning and Winchester make the rifles.

[Jimro]

Olympic Arms makes a 243WSSM upper for the AR platform. However I can't recommend their product since my bud's Oly Arms AR bolt broke, and since he was the second owner they didn't offer to fix it when they called him. It's a simple enough thing to set headspace on a replacement bolt, and since he's local they should have offered to do it at the cost of the bolt, not the cost they quoted him.

Anyways, rant off.

Jimro

[coolmike]

Nice subject Been interested in the 6mm and did some reserch on the subject.

As you all know these rifle fall in between 2 categories Varmint and deer. The 243 as a 1-10 twist and the 6mm a 1-9 Both best suited for heavy bullets
The original designation for the 6mm was the 244 rem wich had a 1-12 twist and was more intended for varmint shooting and occasional deer hunting. Then Rem renamed the 244 to 6mm and introduced the 1-9 twist.

If you read more about the 6mm rem you will learn that with the 1-12 twist of a custom barrel, or a rem 40x and the superior case capacity the 6mm rem is an outstanding varminter capable of velocity adventages of 150+fps over the .243

For serious long range varminting the 6mm definitly has an edge

Regarding barrel life the info i collected from many sources led me to beleive the service life of these barrel is outstanding compared to the .243 and the other, .22 cal varmint chamberings ...As long as you resist the desire to get it rechambered for the improved version aka 6mm ackley improved ...them again you gain another extra 105-200 fps such a lever of performence should deliver quite an impressive effect on prairie dogs using the vmaxs

Just my well informed 2 cents on this subject
Mike

[Flea]

Over the years I've owned several of both the 6mm & 243. I always felt the 6mm was the better round. Alittle more speed without getting into hot loads. Extremly accurate, maybe even alittle more so then the 243 of simular barrel twists.

I guess unless you've owned both and shot both over alot of years it would be a hard call. I hate to see the end of the 6mm it sure served me well.

The 243 seemed to find life when folks started using the 1 in 9 and 1 in 8 twists with larger bullets. The 243 AI, shooting the 105 Berger and the 107 SMK, even with short barrel life, performed real well.

I can't imagine with folks shooting these new 243 WSM, WSSM's that barrel life would be of any consideration. LOL

flea

[usngunner]

My dad loves the .243 for deer. He lives in Missouri, and has bursitis in his shoulders bad. He can shoot that .243 all day though and not have the recoil bother him a bit.

It's kind of funny, my dad can shoot walnuts out the trees with a 22 pistol. That old boy can shoot, pistols, rifles, shotguns, it doesn't matter. I was ragging on him about the .243 vice .308, and I ask him, "If you only have to shoot once, what does it matter?" He always answers, "Boy, I'm getting old, the odds have to catch up sooner or later." I love that guy. (IMG:http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Remington]

The 243 will never be "replaced" it has a brick in the american rilfemans foundation much like the 06, 270, 30-30. It's an excellent round that does what it need to do with out the excess muzzle blast or recoil. The 6mm got the boot when remington made the mistake of introing it as a varmit round, winchester saw the light and introed the 243 as a deer/varmint round. 6mm is a fine round but started of on the wrong foot.

[coolmike]

A 6mm will certainly fill a place in my safe sooner or latter ...lol
Mike

[Guest_Schmidt_Rubin_*]

I can't imagine with folks shooting these new 243 WSM, WSSM's that barrel life would be of any consideration. LOL

flea

From what I read at a benchrest website the super short magnums are very inconsistant as far as groups go. The author believes the rifle would need a lot of tuning and a heavy barrel is a must. The sporter barrels on the Brownings and Winchesters are only good for hunting. And as Flea said, the barrel life isn't up there either.
The 6mm seems interesting, I'd like to pick one up sometime.