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  • Suppression and effect.

    Lets talk about suppression. The objective of a suppressor is to slow down The Escaping Gasses from a weapon, wether this is at the barrel end or in some cases midbarrel full length types which are usually integrated. Slowing the gasses from supersonic (faster than the speed of sound) to Subsonic (below the speed of sound) reduces the Noise levels and in some cases eliminates it completely.

    HOWEVER....Higher powered weapons, whether pistol or rifle, with ammunition travelling faster than the speed of sound will ALWAYS MAKE A NOISE! (A sonic Boom if you will) This "Crack" is a familiar sound to most combat vets, who have had ammo pass them by at uncomfortably close proximity. This noise is caused by the SPEED OF THE ROUND ITSELF, whether the Gasses at the muzzle are eliminated or not, its still going to sound off when it passes the target. For anyone who has been fired on before, telling the direction a round came from is quite simply an easy thing to do. This is why I find suppressing a long gun an unneccesary thing. (Now this is only my OPINION guys, dont get bent!) Any Sniper can tell you, by the time you hear that round go off, the bullet allready arrived several seconds before. (You never hear the shot that kills you) If youve ever "Pulled Targets downrange", you hear the THUD, (The Round Hitting the Target) and then the weapons rapport.

    Now, this being said, A SUBSONIC AMMO, which travels at BELOW the sound barrier, a .45 for example, can be effectively, COMPLETELY silenced. I carried a "High Standard" .22 caliber pistol for some years, it appeared to be a Bull Barrel weapon at a glance, but used subsonic ammo, a compressed lead round, had a SMOOTH bore, and absolutely NO MARKINGS including serial numbers. This weapon was issued to some troops during the cold war. Other than the sound of the ACTION, reloading a round, this weapon was totally silent, and I suppose you know what it was used for.

    So, we have a difference, subsonic, vrs. supersonic. One, I find a use for, the other, I find to be unneccesary, and it can also cause unwanted ballistic instability during long range shots. Now, for those of you that like a little fun.....keep reading.

    A suppressor, internally, has multiple baffles, these baffles are set at different distances, and some are wrapped in screens, and various other components to reduce the gasses frome escaping to quickly. Not unlike an AUTOMOTIVE OIL FILTER. (Which is legal to buy. http://youtu.be/C4ADdUgkW6A

    Now, If a fella was going to do something as seemingly silly as screwing an automotive oil filter on a weapon, that is what it might look like. Now if someone was also going to buy a $40 dollar "oil and solvent weapon adapter" this is where he might find one.

    http://cadizgunworks.com/store/index.php?r...&path=18_28

    Now far be it for me to do such a useles and silly thing as this, But you can never tell when you might need to recover some gun oil...just sayin'. By the way, getting them wet internally first might stop the paper internals from smoking on you. and no, you dont need to drill any holes, just pull the trigger. (it makes its own)Not that I would know or anything......

  • #2
    [quote]
    HOWEVER....Higher powered weapons, whether pistol or rifle, with ammunition travelling faster than the speed of sound will ALWAYS MAKE A NOISE! (A sonic Boom if you will) This "Crack" is a familiar sound to most combat vets, who have had ammo pass them by at uncomfortably close proximity. This noise is caused by the SPEED OF THE ROUND ITSELF, whether the Gasses at the muzzle are eliminated or not, its still going to sound off when it passes the target. For anyone who has been fired on before, telling the direction a round came from is quite simply an easy thing to do. This is why I find suppressing a long gun an unneccesary thing. (Now this is only my OPINION guys, dont get bent!) Any Sniper can tell you, by the time you hear that round go off, the bullet allready arrived several seconds before. (You never hear the shot that kills you) If youve ever "Pulled Targets downrange", you hear the THUD, (The Round Hitting the Target) and then the weapons rapport.[/b]
    Suppressing a high powered rifle reduces recoil, eliminates muzzle flash and associated dust cloud. In addition, it makes it more difficult to locate the shooter based on sound (second shots are needed a fair amount of the time). For every day shooting it reduces concussion and noise to a point where I can shoot out doors without (or perhaps) minimal hearing protection. I also find my groups are tighter with a suppressor and I get a bit more muzzle velocity.
    Here?s to cheating, stealing, and drinking. If you must cheat, then cheat death. If you must steal then steal a young girl?s heart. And if you must drink then have a drink with me.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't need hearing protection when I shoot suppressed. My Son and I can spot for each other better as we can hear. We shoot with better accuracy because it does reduce recoil and muzzle jump. In short, it's more enjoyable....
      Everything I shoot is suppressed these days.
      Steve

      Comment


      • #4
        I suppose that sound is important, Ive seen "Tactical Suppressors" that reduce sound, But What do I care?...I only have One eardrum, and cant hear out of the other!!! Now if I could just suppress that constant RINGING in my ears! Yeah guys....1 to many boom booms. I find it interesting that you said your groups were tighter, Ive always heard the opposite, but I suppose what they used 30 years ago is different from what we have today. Eliminating muzzle flash would be a great plus, in the wild areas, Our techniques for both suppression and flash was to fire from WELL inside a room from a screened or Masked window (The old skeeter nets worked well) in urban areas, yet that is also the same sort of thing that cost me my hearing. I see a lot of the young fella's today hanging that barrel out of a window, or over a roofs edge....thats a no-no in my book. Love a nice photo of a newer type suppressor.

        Comment


        • #5
          Modern sound suppressors do tend to increase accuracy.
          www.precision-applications.com

          It's knowing that when I get up in the morning and my feet hit the floor, the Devil says, "Shit! He's awake!"

          Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."

          "There are so many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find room to bury them all?" - anonymous Finnish soldier

          Comment


          • #6
            Interesting data. http://www.silencerresearch.com/sound_supp...ered_rifles.htm

            Comment


            • #7
              [quote]
              Modern sound suppressors do tend to increase accuracy.[/b]
              Could you take a moment to expound upon the reasons you have seen that to be true? I've battled with this back and forth and am still undecided. I definitely see the capability of masking the shooter and the ease of use for firing and spotting without ear pro; but is there an effect upon muzzle velocity? Do I get different POA/POI from switching between the suppressor and without? Would I have to develop two data cards and potentially switch them in the field? Am I limited to the type of rounds I use because of possible expansion and baffle strike?
              ?Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
              General James Mattis, USMC

              "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down."
              Yagyu Munenori

              "A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by."
              John Wayne

              Comment


              • #8
                Many of the tests that I have seen, and participated in, showed an increase in both accuracy and MV when a good quality suppressor was used.

                You will more than likely get a shift in POI when the can is attached due to the difference barrel harmonics. It is repeatable and loggable. If the MV doesn't change, or doesn't change much, all of most of your dope will stay the same. You won't know until you try the can on your rifle.

                I can't think of any rounds you wouldn't use with a suppressor, except for certain tracers and duplex rounds.
                www.precision-applications.com

                It's knowing that when I get up in the morning and my feet hit the floor, the Devil says, "Shit! He's awake!"

                Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."

                "There are so many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find room to bury them all?" - anonymous Finnish soldier

                Comment


                • #9
                  [quote]
                  Many of the tests that I have seen, and participated in, showed an increase in both accuracy and MV when a good quality suppressor was used.

                  You will more than likely get a shift in POI when the can is attached due to the difference barrel harmonics. It is repeatable and loggable. If the MV doesn't change, or doesn't change much, all of most of your dope will stay the same. You won't know until you try the can on your rifle.

                  I can't think of any rounds you wouldn't use with a suppressor, except for certain tracers and duplex rounds.[/b]
                  Good info, it's becoming harder not to budget this into a build.
                  ?Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
                  General James Mattis, USMC

                  "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down."
                  Yagyu Munenori

                  "A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by."
                  John Wayne

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Reminding me once more why I hate living in New Jersey...
                    While it's true that a suppressed rifle utilizing supersonic ammunition will still create the sonic crack, it does not to my understanding, do so at the muzzle of the weapon. The diffusion of the sound by the suppressor can alter the perception of the shooters location based on the position of those hearing the shot in relation to the shooter. By causing the sound of the shot to appear to originate from a different location, we in effect aid in concealing our firing point from detection. Add to this the near complete removal of any muzzle flash, and significantly less muzzle blast, based on caliber of course, and you again find your way back to the assistance in concealing our firing point.
                    So, no, it's not movie quiet, but it does assist a shooter in remaining undetected, which is never a bad thing, and kinda the point for those interested in sniping. Throw in a little free bore boost and stabilized barrel harmonics, and you have a win on multiple levels.
                    Sigh...three more years to retirement and freedom ...
                    "It's better to live one day as a lion, than one hundred years as a sheep", Old Roman Proverb.
                    "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know", Author Unknown.
                    "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!", Shakespeare, Julius Ceaser, Act III, Scene I.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [quote]
                      Reminding me once more why I hate living in New Jersey...
                      While it's true that a suppressed rifle utilizing supersonic ammunition will still create the sonic crack, it does not to my understanding, do so at the muzzle of the weapon. The diffusion of the sound by the suppressor can alter the perception of the shooters location based on the position of those hearing the shot in relation to the shooter. By causing the sound of the shot to appear to originate from a different location, we in effect aid in concealing our firing point from detection. Add to this the near complete removal of any muzzle flash, and significantly less muzzle blast, based on caliber of course, and you again find your way back to the assistance in concealing our firing point.
                      So, no, it's not movie quiet, but it does assist a shooter in remaining undetected, which is never a bad thing, and kinda the point for those interested in sniping. Throw in a little free bore boost and stabilized barrel harmonics, and you have a win on multiple levels.
                      Sigh...three more years to retirement and freedom ...[/b]
                      Not to mention interrupting the "crack…thump" method that a lot of us were probably taught in locating a shooter. I would ask you if your reference was NJ not allowing suppressors, but I'm pretty sure that everything is illegal in NJ.
                      ?Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
                      General James Mattis, USMC

                      "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down."
                      Yagyu Munenori

                      "A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by."
                      John Wayne

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Anything fun, anyway Yeah, no Class Three for we subjects...
                        "It's better to live one day as a lion, than one hundred years as a sheep", Old Roman Proverb.
                        "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know", Author Unknown.
                        "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!", Shakespeare, Julius Ceaser, Act III, Scene I.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's something I was chewing on earlier; when do you know to clean your suppressor when attached to a precision rifle? I haven't seen thoughts on this site, but have noticed that a lot of "pro's" have started advocating only cleaning the barrel once accuracy is lost or when copper fouling is evident on the crown. Should the suppressor be cleaned (if applicable) at the same time? Or after every time that it is shot…or every "so many" rounds.
                          ?Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
                          General James Mattis, USMC

                          "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down."
                          Yagyu Munenori

                          "A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by."
                          John Wayne

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [quote]
                            Here's something I was chewing on earlier; when do you know to clean your suppressor when attached to a precision rifle? I haven't seen thoughts on this site, but have noticed that a lot of "pro's" have started advocating only cleaning the barrel once accuracy is lost or when copper fouling is evident on the crown. Should the suppressor be cleaned (if applicable) at the same time? Or after every time that it is shot…or every "so many" rounds.[/b]

                            These days I mostly run a reflex type suppressor of my own design on an Accuracy International chambered in 6,5x47. The rifle is used with subs and out to 1200 yards. After use I always remove the suppressor and clean the crown to remove any carbon build up and add some copper grease to the muzzle thread and the threads on the suppressor, I clean the rear section however I leave the front section as it is with carbon in it as it helps to dampen things down a bit more. Around once a year I give everything a deep clean.
                            /d

                            Du lytter aldrig til de ord jeg siger. Du ser mig kun for det t?j jeg har paa ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As to cleaning your barrel, there isn't a hard and fast rule.......it varies from rifle to rifle. Some shoot better clean, some dirty.

                              On my main rifle, I buck the trend and keep it clean. She shoots the same clean or dirty, so I keep her clean.
                              www.precision-applications.com

                              It's knowing that when I get up in the morning and my feet hit the floor, the Devil says, "Shit! He's awake!"

                              Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."

                              "There are so many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find room to bury them all?" - anonymous Finnish soldier

                              Comment

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