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Semi Auto Or Bolt Action

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  • #31
    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for your comments.

    I agree with you what you said about H&Ks - like I wrote earlier I have used them quite a lot. Actually I sold my personal tuned G3 SG 1 long time ago.

    What comes to AR-10/M1A, my purpose was not to start any argument, just merely ask experiences about them. I'm sure both guns more or less equal. Besides, I do not have personal experiences on M1A, only on AR-10s, which have been very positive. I have to admit that I like AR-10s even over H&Ks, but that's my very subjective point of view.

    I guess you're right about emotions involved with different types of guns. For me guns are just tools for the trade, they either do the job or don't.

    I have also had both successes and failures with all systems I have used and most of the failures have been end user related (me), not the system itself. But it's always so easy to put the blame on system not to oneself.

    I believe that any system is as good as the man behind it.

    Shoot well! :smoke:




    • #32
      Which is better, a semi-auto or bolt-action Sniper Rifle? IMHO it depends on METT-T and the nut behind the trigger. The elements to winning a lethal encounter (in order of importance) is MINDSET, TACTICS, SKILL, and EQUIPMENT. JM2CW.


      • #33
        Build your AR10 style gas gun as a .5MOA gun and most problems go away. Try having it built as a less than .5MOA gun and problems start fast. As for accuracy at 700+ my factory 10 hit man size targets with ease. All I have to do is call the wind right. Got to do that with a bolt also.

        Gas guns are the weapon of choice of shooters not stuck in the past.


        • #34
          In combat 1000 yds was sometimes close enough for me. I'll take the bolt gun everytime. I'm alive because I'm stuck in the past!

          Why get that close when you don't have to?
          "with the patience of an oyster....I watch and wait"

          Training the US, one shooter at a time.


          • #35
            In combat 1000 yds was sometimes close enough for me. I'll take the bolt gun everytime. I'm alive because I'm stuck in the past!

            Why get that close when you don't have to?[/b]
            I will have to go with the highly tuned bolt gun always even though I do like the new AR's in .300 WSAUM.

            I still would prefer the MK 19 over the AR, you gotta love the range on those babies.


            • #36
              What up yall,

              In my most recent experiences as a sniper in the *War on Terror* Ive come to realize a few things about sniper rifles and equipment: 1)If in an Urban environment-DEFINITELY go with a semiauto. The advantages are too good. If you can get a hold of one that looks just like what everyone else carrys i.e. mod AR10/SR-25, thats perfect. Same for the rest of your gear. Youll be able to get in undetected AS A SNIPER in the early stages of infiltration, but the rest is up to you. Engagements are RARELY past 400 meters so accuracy isnt all that much of an issue. At this range you could still make headshots with a 1.5-2MOA gun so theres no need to be crying about accuracy here. Targets usually come and go quickly and in pairs so having to cycle that bolt every time can get pretty annoying (although, yes, I know, it can be done). Also, todays enemy relies heavily on surprise for his attacks so if you dont seize the opportunity to kill him en masse when you can, you may not get another chance for quite some time. 2)If in a Rural environment- the bolt guns are just fine. All the usual Sniper TTPs apply here.

              Im not a cop (yet) so I couldnt say for sure, but, I would think that bolt guns would do just fine this line of work. I just dont see a LEO killing in rapid succession which would necessitate a semiauto which is what I see as the main benefit of a semiauto sniper rifle. But hey, thats just one Snipers opinion.
              " any means necessary."


              • #37
                Welcome aboard shooter,
                Where are you stationed?


                • #38
                  That’s just it! Its marketing hype as best I can tell. Everyone keeps saying that accuracy is “just as good” or “almost as good,” But after the department or agency purchases several of them, they start complaining about the overall package not being what they thought it was. The end user also starts having problems with the rifles feeding, jamming, or breaking under real world conditions. I have seen it first hand and heard it from the mouths of the agency shooters time and time again for the last few years.

                  Sure there are some home users that have purchased these and they shoot great when they get kept in nice gun safes, and only come out every now and then for standard target shooting. BUT that is not the same as real snipers using these day in and day out, struggling with an inaccurate system and hating everyone that suggested it to them and their agency.[/b]


                  What about the M1A or the M21???? need to know, thanx...

                  SPC K.


                  • #39
                    what about them?
                    Knowledge comes from retaining what is learned,


                    • #40
                      what about them?[/b]

                      havent THEY provent themselves? reliable and accurate? i have never used an m21 in theater or in the field, but in my mind i would PREFER the m21 over m24 in an urban situation due to quicker follow-up shots and snap/rapid mulitipuls if nessisary. Shorter range engagements seem to be the rule rather than the exception, and ive never heard anything bad about the m21 or m14 except for rare accuaracy issues. Are they hard to maintain a top level of performance/reliablity?

                      I would also PREFER the M21 over any XM-110 or SR-25 with all the bells and whistles. Am i right? or have the same problems been incountered with accurized or rack grade M14's in the field? would like to know so i dont go off and order a bunch of "problems" in the future. Especially since we snipers tend to work in small groups and employ small unit tactics, it would be nice to have those extra 19 rounds on tap for a CQB or mid range engagement. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG. Im'a learnin'!


                      SPC K.


                      • #41
                        I rather sees a semi-autos as a DMR, and an excellent spotterrifle. I prefer the G3-based weapons because of their combatproven reliability from extreme artic cold to the extreme desert heat. You can get all mentioned semis in this topic to be accurate enough (better then 1MOA). The only difference that matters is the reliabilty.
                        I've posted some of my experience with the G3 in this post:


                        • #42
                          I would go with the bolt-action (Or streight-pull) everytime, I have a spotter with a semi/full auto for when fast-fire is required and if I didn't trust that he knows how to use it along with my B-A, then I wouldn't have him by my side. The bolt-action is a proven formula so why change what works (and has worked for a long time?!). At the end of the day, when your (& those that depend on your skills) lives are on the line, I'd much rather have the confidence in my 'proven' bolt-action than the hearsay of those in Com. Or those who have just changed over to an auto (no offence!), saying, "you should try using a semi, it gives you this over that..In terms of abillities". All I need to know is that my tools do the job when I request it of them. I have no doubt that one day in the future the semi will hold the same kind of MOA as a B-A and be just as relliable but I just don't think that , that day has arrived yet. So until that day I'll be confidently sticking with my B-A and spotter. However, that is just my personal opp.


                          • #43
                            Just a bit of wisdom my grandfather passed onto me from the depression era ( ie ammo was sacred and each shot had to count ). "Semi-auto makes people sloppy, bolt actions force the shot to be more accurate. If your family is counting on you to bring home 10 squirrels for dinner and you take 10 .22LR rounds out. You better bring home 10 squirrels or mom and grandmom will be after your hide. "

                            It's a psychological thing with semi-auto's that creates the sloppiness from some people. Exception to the rule is the people who use the bolt action or breach load rifles as a primary. This would apply to training and real world use.

                            Another aspect from a general mechanical engineering perspective. The more parts moving, the more that can go wrong. Find an old .22 semi-auto and tear it down. Look at how many springs and parts that move are in the beast. The more moving parts, the more the variance on consistancy for each round having the same seat, same bolt locking, same trigger to firing pin timing.

                            The only way I found personally to get around this is to use the 1 shot approach during training. Load 1 round in the magazine, check target, load round, check target, lock target, fire round into target. I always get a better grouping at 25 yds, 100yds and 200yds. This does not matter if it's with a .22LR or an SKS ( I was being super cheap at the time and couldnt pass up the $50 SKS in the early 90's ). Using a single shot at a time, I always get a better results.

                            But as was stated by some of the others before, situation dictates the type of equipment ( ie budgets and those suckered by pushing salesmen ). Urban combat and long range rural combat are both extremely different. Same could be said about hunting in the Smokey Mountains and hunting in the Rockies too.
                            Never under estimate the mindset of an engineer; if it is broke... fix it, if its not broke then it can be broke beyond any manner of repair in violent chaotic ways ( unintentionally of course .. yeah right ).