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  • The Ultimate Pack Debate

    This is not complete by any means. Anybody have something I don't have listed or a question that they feel should be added, please PM and I will add it. Also, please stay with the topic.

    I have been looking for a pack for at least a yr. now. Can't decide, too many options out there. My trusty Alice works great. We have had a long history together, walked many miles together and I wouldn't give her up for the world, so I am thinking about converting her to a 3 day pack and looking for a heavy hauler/Long Range Pack.

    This could also be used for others to make a pack choice in the future.



    These are the questions:

    1) What Pack you chose?

    2) Why you Chose it?(Recommendation, Price, availability, warranty, Prior purchase with manufacturer,

    customer service with company)

    3) Would you purchase same pack if you had to do it all over again? If not, Why?

    4) Price you paid, where and when you purchased it.

    5) Easy of packing and unpacking?

    6) Comfort level? Both Short and long humps. (This includes comfort of the shoulder straps and waist band/belt/pad.)

    7) Modifications made to assist in comfort(Purchased new shoulder straps, waist band/belt/pads, new frames,etc. Also mention which companies you purchased said items from)

    8) Pros of Pack choice

    9) Cons of Pack choice

    10) Durability of material?

    11) Accessory Options used?(Additional addons like pouches, etc.)

    12) Any changes you feel would make the pack choice better?

    Any Other comments directly related to the topic are greatly appreciated.
    0
    Kifaru EMR
    0%
    0
    Kifaru MMR
    0%
    0
    Kifaru Navigator
    0%
    0
    Kifaru ZXR
    0%
    0
    Kifaru Pointman
    0%
    0
    Kifaru Zulu
    0%
    0
    Camelbak BFM
    0%
    0
    Large Alice
    0%
    0
    Tactical Taylor Malice V.1-V.3
    0%
    0
    Eberlestock Gunslinger/Phantom
    0%
    0
    In the Jungle, On the hunt, I am The Ghost in the Darkness

  • #2
    Wow I am 100% of the vote guess I win

    These are the questions:

    1) What Pack you chose?
    Camelback BFM


    2) Why you Chose it?(Recommendation, Price, availability, warranty, Prior purchase with manufacturer,
    customer service with company)

    I have used other products from them, and knew they were high quality. When I examined flea's when I first went to CVT, I loved it! Price is 1/3rd of setting up a Karifu the way I would like to, and the thing takes abuse like nobodys business, both the outside and the bladder.


    3) Would you purchase same pack if you had to do it all over again? If not, Why?
    Yes if I didn't have 900 to setup the karifu


    4) Price you paid, where and when you purchased it.
    Ummm Quantico Arms... Whatever they charge. If I remember best deals I found. Errr pointed to. Thanks Flea.


    5) Easy of packing and unpacking?
    Even I can stay organized in it, and that is a challenge!


    6) Comfort level? Both Short and long humps. (This includes comfort of the shoulder straps and waist band/belt/pad.)
    Longest I humped this has been two days. It has a ridged back which is good and vents pretty well back there, the deign of the pack is light to medium, so the belt does not support a ton of weight but it does a pretty decent job for the day while you are out. I wore this though the Dominican while I was there, and really everything was handy and I was comfy for toating around 40 lbs on my back all day. I am pretty sure we covered about 8 miles that day, just for reference.



    7) Modifications made to assist in comfort(Purchased new shoulder straps, waist band/belt/pads, new frames,etc. Also mention which companies you purchased said items from)
    None, although I was glad becuase one of the things I normally do is tie down the dangling straps, this pack comes with some highspeed velcro fasteners that are already on the straps.


    8) Pros of Pack choice:
    See #7, and the internal pocket system of this thing is what sold me. I don't have to go searching for crap, and I don't think I have lost crap that I put back in the right place!!!! When you think about it how many small items do we carry in our packs. In spending time at fleas, they have grown not shrank. Some of the many things I keep in here, GPS, LRF, A crap load of extra batteries (at least 2 packs for each), compus, camo paint (I use carbo mask in the tubes so 4 different tubes), my sniper veil, a rifle wrap (usually) Log book, Full rain gear, gortex top and bottoms, 2 pack towels, a drift set, 8-12 granolla bars, 2 cans vienna sausages, 2 energy drinks liquid (usually monster), 4 tubes zipfizz (the ultimate energy drink) %2100 of vit B!!!, 1 can chilli, 4 power bars, 2 packets emergency water, 1 MRE, one of two tactial lights and 6 spare battires + loaded spares carrier with another 6 bats, 2 military towels, 1 field knife 100 mi hr taped to the left chest strap, Ammo for the day, when it is sitting here 4 30 rnd mags of 223, 100 rnds 308 hand loads. One field trama kit with quick clot, tape, compress and turni-kit. Oh yeah, a and picture of my girlfriend All that in a small well organized package.

    9) Cons of Pack choice:
    I haven't found where to put the kitchen sink.

    10) Durability of material?
    Rock solid. I punish this thing when I go travel and it has taken a fair ammount of abuse when I took it as a climbing pack a few times.

    11) Accessory Options used?(Additional addons like pouches, etc.)
    I bought 6 fastex straps for outside attachement to the MOLLE system f needed... never used them. If I ever finish my ghillie they will mount that to the bottom of the pack.

    12) Any changes you feel would make the pack choice better?
    I would like a better more secure anchor for the bladder lines, but really haven't put my mind to it, I don't like things tapping me while I am walking, that is the only thing that does.

    Any Other comments directly related to the topic are greatly appreciated.
    I think I covered it.
    CelticRaven

    -- Poor is the country with no heroes and worse yet, is the country that forgets its heroes.

    Plan for what CAN happen, not what HAS happened.
    --CelticRaven

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    --Thomas Jefferson

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok Travis, I used moderators privilege and added the Eberlestock Gunslinger to it.
      I paid right at 200 something for mine.

      I already did a review of this pack. The only quibble I had Glen fixed, and that was the top carry handle. The model that came out right after mine had the new mod implemented. They listen.

      I have since carried this baby quite a bit in different scenarios, SHOT, the field, range, hunting, you name it. It's very comfortable, and I do not hesitate to grab it and go. It is my default bag, and it works great. I find myself using the scabbard for Spotting scope stands, etc, it's just plain handy.

      I did buy the hydration bladders from Eberlestock as well, they are excellent also. Hard to beat combo.

      I would buy another, as a matter of fact I plan on buying the Phantom, it's a front loader, and I can see a need for one of those as well.

      All in all, a well designed piece of gear.
      "Do the right thing even if it means dying like a dog when no one's there to see you do it." Vice Admiral James Stockdale, NAVY PILOT

      "Honor, Integrity, Commitment to core values. When they become abstract concepts or "ideals", all is lost." Me.

      "Character is doing the right thing, even when no one is looking." J.C. Watts

      "I have never seen a projectile turn in flight and come back at the ship that fired it, I cannot however make that same statement regarding missiles." Me.

      Deus lo vult! = "God wills it!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey Brother,
        You have a lot of excellent packs up there, but they cover a huge range of sizes for different needs. If I needed a ton of storage, the smaller assualt type packs won't get the job done. On the other hand, carrying smaller loads in a much larger pack is always a PIA and a poor choice.
        So, for us to pick your ultimate pack, what do you need it for? Will it need to carry a weapon? Will accessories be brought into play, like the gun bearer platform for the Kifaru? Since the Kifaru packs make up the majority of the list, I take it price is no object?
        It's kinda like looking into a huge bowl of apples, oranges, grapes, cantelope, cherries. bannanas, and watermelons, and asking which one is best ...
        Respectfully,
        Harry
        "It's better to live one day as a lion, than one hundred years as a sheep", Old Roman Proverb.
        "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know", Author Unknown.
        "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!", Shakespeare, Julius Ceaser, Act III, Scene I.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have the Large ALICE with TT Super straps and belt that works great for me. I want to send it off for some mods and got to thinking more space would just mean more stuff and God knows I pack a lot of useless stuff if I can.

          I got to looking at TT 3 Day and Ranger 3 Day but they were limited on webbing space to add additional pouches as needed.

          I opted for the Maxpedition Vulture 2 at 2810 CI and webbing on both side and across the back. My plan is to have HG of Gunners Gear fame make a couple vertical 6x3.5x14 inch pouches for either/both sides, possibly some extention straps for the compression straps on the sides and a Claymore style pocket for the back panel. The additional pockets should give me around 900-1000 CI of extra space but I have to think about what to pack unlike the gapping void of the ALICE pack.

          I bought a seperate Maxpedition waist pack that is stuffed with 1st Aid supplies just need the Muted Red 1st Aid Tape with Velcro to stick on the loop panel on the pouch.

          http://maxpedition.com/product/product_bp_vulture2.htm

          I was actually quite impressed with the quality of the Maxpedition Gear in general. It is built with a lot of over kill in the stitching and stress point that I didn't expect to get in a Pac Rim piece of gear.

          The main body of the pack is about the same as most 3 day packs and easy to access with one zippered web pocket inside for seperate storage. Nothing fancy like some 3 day Assualt packs with PALS webbing all over.

          Secondary pocket has space for key, pens/pencils, note book and again a big storage pocket.

          Flat zippered pocket would be great for maps but other that that it is just there.

          Carry handle looks like it was meant for the front of a Hum Vee, Hydration pocket in well padded and easy to access.

          Straps could have a little more padding but I may be used to the TT Super Straps and Belt.

          Draw backs are the add on pouches, Maxpedition doesn't make anything larger than say a 9x5x3 waist pack that can be attached with Malice clips......Hence HG and the Gunner Gear sewing machine cure.

          I think if Maxpedition came up with a larger pack that would fit on the old ALICE Frame, something like a Vulture 5.5 with all the PALS webbing to expand on it would be great then one could use the TT Super Straps and Belt. Some larger pouches for side and back addition would also be a good idea.

          I also have a small Condor 2 pack which has 1950 CI in one large body and 2 smaller pockets.

          http://maxpedition.com/product/product_bp_condor2.htm

          I added 1 each USGI Canteen cover to the lower sides, 1st Aid pouch (as mentioned earlier can be added to the top) smaller waist pack holds compass, flash light, lighter, FRS radio, extra folding knife and it get switched between packs.

          Maxpedition also has a couple smaller packs that would work good for a tactical shooter/ call out....What ever your call them for LEO/SWAT shooters and would serve as a shooting support.

          Note, I have nothing to do with Maxpedition other than I took a gamble and bought a couple cheaper pieces to see what it was like material and quality wise. I was expecting to get CTD quality where you pack it and the bottom blows out on day 2. It's just good stuff and well worth looking into.

          Karsten

          Comment


          • #6
            I like a Large Alice because I don'tk know any better. It's what I've trained on, I've never used any other system (aside from various hiking packs of the civilian persuasion), and it doesn't make me stand out like a sore thumb (when everyone else has a large alice it might not be wise to be the guy with a high speed Kifaru pack).

            Anyways, that being said the Ruck doesn't distribute the weight as well as other packs, the load is usually too far out and too low. Civilian style packs usually keep the weight close and try to keep it high, closer to the shoulders. After a long ruck (40 miles) over two days it takes a while to walk correctly again, you are so used to compensating for the life sucking tick on your back that not having the ungainly thing out there makes you walk like a stork on tip toe.

            The best thing you can do to make your ruck more "ruckable" is to upgrade the shoulder straps with some sleeping mat foam or other source of padding, to help distribute the weight better, or get some aftermarket straps.

            Of course if you don't have any of the concerns I have then the pack that fits you best is the one for you. Not everyone has the same build or frame, and therefore some packs will work better than others. Look for a pack with a lot of adjustment points so that you can really fit it to your particular build.

            Jimro
            "How you train is EXACTLY how you fight" Col (Ret) Robert B. Nett, awarded Medal of Honor

            Comment


            • #7
              Any thoughts on this Pack?
              Level III Assault Pack

              http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/PACK121-41851-514.html

              http://www.snipershide.com/ubb/ultimatebb....5488;p=1#000015
              Only the stong survive

              Comment


              • #8
                http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?prod...D=1&CatID=5

                This is another one I found last night.
                In the Jungle, On the hunt, I am The Ghost in the Darkness

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't have the one above (in RYU's post), but I do have the bigger one--

                  http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MOLLE125-41518-514.html

                  My wife bought it for me after I told her I couldn't find a pack in the 200-250 dollar range (at the Shot Show)that I liked. She bought it as sort of a joke-- she said that if I break it, rip it, and or thrash it, she wont get mad, cause it was so inexpensive. I say inexpensive and not "cheap" for a reason...

                  When she handed it to me I thought there are a brick in it, it's freak'en heavy (6lbs)!

                  But you know what...

                  The thing is tough--period-- probably not as tough as a Kifaru pack (no brainier and not even in the same league), but I haven't been able to kill it yet. I use it all the time. For hiking, and exercise (I put bags of lead shot it in and jog and or ride my bike-- yes I'm on the path to heath again-- shut up Gunner), I use it when I go shooting in the desert (where we have to hike and carry everything we need for the day-- water, targets, a beater, mat, food, ammo, cleaning gear, first aid kit, spotter, binos, ect.), and I use it at the local range. It does it all, because it's huge, but it has cinch straps that compress it way down. It handles and distributes weight really well, just as good as my MoutainSmith pack, and way better than my medium ALICE pack.

                  The stitching is impressive, it would take alot of abuse to blow them out. The Zippers seem "ok" they aren't YKK-- but they are self healing, and they work well. I hang (2) 3L water packs in the Hydration slot in the main compartment and they fit nice and snug.

                  For $60 bucks the pack is great and a good alt. to spending an arm and a leg on something that will be thrashed. It's made in China though--- as with the one above (Assault III). I think the SH link says its American made-- that's incorrect they are made in China.



                  If I had 400 bucks in the toys fund I would get the Marauder with a few MALICE pockets-- but I don't, maybe in the future-- but not right now--

                  Hope this helps Travis.
                  "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time."
                  Leo Tolstoy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    main pack for long hauls is a Macpack Cascade 90L
                    daypack to come along is a Ridgeline Totara 45L

                    the mack has webbing that secure rifles nicely while being quickly released i've knowen possum trappers to carry 90lb's + in one for the past 18 years and only the zippers on the external pockets have failed the pack remains water tight
                    it balances heavy loads for long tramping trips (10-12 hour walks)
                    the ridgeline allows for quiet stalking in dense bush and was purpose designed for hunting with quick release gun webbing.
                    prices...Macpack NZ$560.00 Ridgeline NZ$199.00
                    The future of man is unknowen, Unless you try to rob a gun store with a machete in which case your future is certin...Your gonna get your dumb a$$ shot!


                    one weekend in the bush sorts out months of crap from the city.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      These are the questions:

                      1) What Pack you chose?

                      TT MALICE I with supper straps and belt

                      2) Why you Chose it?(Recommendation, Price, availability, warranty, Prior purchase with manufacturer,

                      customer service with company) Made in the usa, when i was at lewis i could walk in and walk out with is to i guess avalibiity but they are avalable from the manufacureor and other places online, warranty is good bacicly as long as you dont do any thing to stupid they will fix or replace it ( that was what it was when i bought mine) i had bought a RACK from TT and liked it.

                      3) Would you purchase same pack if you had to do it all over again? If not, Why?

                      i have not had exposure to many packs mostly ALICE MOLLIE and MALICE and was most inpresed with the MALICE

                      4) Price you paid, where and when you purchased it.

                      I paid MSRP and bought it from the old shop.

                      5) Easy of packing and unpacking?

                      great for getting stuff its like a ALICE only better details/materials. and the extra ouside pockets make it easy to seperate stuff.

                      6) Comfort level? Both Short and long humps. (This includes comfort of the shoulder straps and waist band/belt/pad.)

                      best i have used out of the above mentioned 3 but as a note it breaths better then MOLLIE so you get some air on your back.

                      7) Modifications made to assist in comfort(Purchased new shoulder straps, waist band/belt/pads, new frames,etc. Also mention which companies you purchased said items from

                      )only thing i had to add becides the above mentioned items was a ALICE frame but uncle bought that.

                      8) Pros of Pack choice

                      once you use a alice you see how it needs a storm flap, fastex, zipper on the map flap and the small extierier pockets are sweet to keep your stuff sorted. Also not the pack but the supper belt is great in that it atachese with 2 straps and latter locks so i mounts up solid.

                      9) Cons of Pack choice

                      weight the origanle ALICE was like 400 or 600 count where this is 1000 courdura and it is notably hevier.

                      10) Durability of material? As duralbe as 1000 coudura ever is.

                      11) Accessory Options used?(Additional addons like pouches, etc.)

                      i added a Etool carier Malice clipe on to one side and a 2 quart canteen to the other

                      12) Any changes you feel would make the pack choice better?

                      Any Other comments directly related to the topic are greatly appreciated.

                      one note is that given it is simuler to ALICE that means you by the pack, frame, shoulder straps, kidny pad one pice at a time its not a kit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [attachment=6623:attachment]Here Travis-- This is what you need-- a NAVY issue waterproof load carrying ruck--

                        by SI-Tech--all you have to do is re-enlist , and get on a dive team.
                        [attachment=6625:attachment]
                        It's a lil bigger than your ruck that your using now though.
                        Attached Files
                        "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time."
                        Leo Tolstoy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [quote]
                          I don't have the one above (in RYU's post), but I do have the bigger one--

                          http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MOLLE125-41518-514.html

                          My wife bought it for me after I told her I couldn't find a pack in the 200-250 dollar range (at the Shot Show)that I liked. She bought it as sort of a joke-- she said that if I break it, rip it, and or thrash it, she wont get mad, cause it was so inexpensive. I say inexpensive and not "cheap" for a reason...

                          When she handed it to me I thought there are a brick in it, it's freak'en heavy (6lbs)!

                          But you know what...[/b]
                          For what it's worth, this Cheaper Than Dirt pack is the EXACT same pack as the more expensive Camelbak BFM, minus the bladder (which costs like $11.00). I have both, and the only differences are some cosmetic logos added to the BFM back panel and fastex buckles. The top of the pack straps also differ in attachment - I actually like the CTD method better. I have a feeling these might even be made in the same factory, they are so close to being identical.

                          I've been carrying my BFM all summer for day trips of 3-10 miles, and it works great with 25-40 pounds in it. I'll be setting the CTD copy as a bugout bag, with similar contents, but set up for 3 days of survival "off the grid" in case of emergency or natural disaster. I also got the matching CTD drag bag for $89, and it is a winner as well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Packs seem to be Job Dependent for me:

                            GunSlinger for when I'm the Sniper.
                            Camelbak BFM when I'm the Spotter.

                            Seems to work well for me, but I have yet to find a pack that does both perfect!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Day in day out my Camelbak BFM still makes the trip to the range. Filled with everything I need, plus fixes for all the breaks you folks bring me.

                              I couldn't ask for a better or more comfortable pack and shooting platform. Now if I were headed off to war, I'd have to go with the Kifaru.


                              flea
                              "with the patience of an oyster....I watch and wait"

                              Training the US, one shooter at a time.






                              http://www.centralvirginiatactical.com

                              Comment

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