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  • Action pistol equipment?

    I need some help figuring out what I need for handgunning gear.

    I've had a CCW for 7 years or so and have practiced defensive pistol techniques with my various carry guns. I usually carry a small DA semi-auto IWB, with one extra mag in an IWB belt carrier and occasionally one more in my pocket.

    I'd like to try some of the action pistol competitions that seem to be getting more and more common in my area, but really don't know what to get for gear. Retention is a concern, due to the activity of the pistol matches that are combined with carbine stuff, and if the same holster could work for CCW, that would be a big plus from a training POV. I prefer leather IWB for CCW, but I know I need to get a strong-side OWB holster for this and am considering kydex. I was looking at stuff like the Galco M5X or something along those lines, for a mid-sized (G19, CZ-P01, etc.) 9mm semi-auto.

    I also need to carry a few mags. It would be nice if the carriers could also double duty for CCW, but I'm prepared to dedicate carriers and holster to just shoot the competitions if compromise is difficult.

    I don't really expect to compete that seriously, but do enjoy just getting out and blasting occasionally, like the action pistol stuff or even shooting a few rounds of skeet.

    T.I.A. for your help, I appreciate any guidance you can offer!
    Ed

    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

  • #2
    Ed,

    I hate to tell you this, I started shooting IPSC for the same reasons. It doesn't work.

    Unless you're really just wanting to use the matches for training and don't care about the scores, then it does.

    You can't really be competitive with actual carry gear. And comp gear isn't good for actual "real" carry.

    I would make up my mind what my goals were, and then decide. Not trying to be a smart alec, but that was my experience.
    "Do the right thing even if it means dying like a dog when no one's there to see you do it." Vice Admiral James Stockdale, NAVY PILOT

    "Honor, Integrity, Commitment to core values. When they become abstract concepts or "ideals", all is lost." Me.

    "Character is doing the right thing, even when no one is looking." J.C. Watts

    "I have never seen a projectile turn in flight and come back at the ship that fired it, I cannot however make that same statement regarding missiles." Me.

    Deus lo vult! = "God wills it!"

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree gunner, I have shot IPSC since 91 off/on and you need diff gear for this game. First decide on your handgun choice then buy a Blade Tech holster, works for me unless you want to go full blown Open division, then that holster is out and something more along the CR Speed WS is needed. I use blade tech for 3 gun matches and it holds my P16 Para fine. Its all in how you want to play the game... Oh just noticed you are thinking mid sized? Glock 19ish? Go with a fullsize if you want to do this, mainly for the mag capacity, and buy all the mags/springs you will need now before its too late! Hope this helps, any other Q's just ask and you will get answers/opinions.

      Steve

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Vince, and no, I don't think of your reply as smart-alek, I appreciate your opinion.

        If a useful compromise with dual purpose gear isn't possible, I guess I'd be just as well off working with something more suited to competition and the gun I'd use is a little big for CCW anyway.

        I mainly looking to have some fun, especially if it would compliment training, but I don't want to fight for last place either.
        Ed

        The beatings will continue until morale improves.

        Comment


        • #5
          [quote]
          I agree gunner, I have shot IPSC since 91 off/on and you need diff gear for this game. First decide on your handgun choice then buy a Blade Tech holster, works for me unless you want to go full blown Open division, then that holster is out and something more along the CR Speed WS is needed. I use blade tech for 3 gun matches and it holds my P16 Para fine. Its all in how you want to play the game... Oh just noticed you are thinking mid sized? Glock 19ish? Go with a fullsize if you want to do this, mainly for the mag capacity, and buy all the mags/springs you will need now before its too late! Hope this helps, any other Q's just ask and you will get answers/opinions.

          Steve[/b]
          Thanks you recon215 I appreciate your suggestions as well. Which Blade tech are you using, something along these lines? http://www.blade-tech.com/Bobby-McGee-Pro-...AK-pr-1093.html

          I already have a CZ P-01 I thought I'd use, which they call a "compact", but at 7-1/4" long and 1-3/4#, it's more a mid-size. Fits my hand great and points very well for me, almost don't need the sights. I mentioned the G19 above, because it's almost the same size and more people are familiar with Blocks. Standard capacity is 14+1, but it will take 75B mags 16+1 and SP-01 mags 18+1 if I don't mind them hanging out a little. IIRC, they even make a 20 for that series, but that is going to be a bit much to be hanging out.
          Ed

          The beatings will continue until morale improves.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you want the best of both worlds check out IDPA-- the gear revolves around concealed carry, however, there is still that element of competition. I shot IPSC for years but recently became disenchanted by the spirit of it all. IDPA isn't like that, every match I've been to I've had a blast and I haven't come across the race mentality/ high pressure for scoring that I saw in IPSC.

            Anyways, Here is the link to the rule book and equipment requirements:
            http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

            As for equipment:
            I use Comp Tac gear ( http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/ ). Shep (our very own state champ), turned me on them and I have to say I am eternally thankful for that advice. The people at Comp-Tac are great and their products function and construction are perfect!

            Belt (always overlooked but very important piece of gear.)
            Kydex Holster
            Magazine Holsters (you'll only need 2)
            Some sort of concealment garment I use a 5.11 vest because I live in southern California where it's hot as heck most of the time.

            If your not into Kydex you can use leather-- I have a Avenger holster that works great as well.

            Lots of people use Glocks, 1911's, Sig's, ect. , you name they use it. The whole concept revolves around CCW. I alternate between 1911 and Sig 9mm every other month.

            Hope that helps.
            "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time."
            Leo Tolstoy

            Comment


            • #7
              [quote]
              If you want the best of both worlds check out IDPA-- the gear revolves around concealed carry, however, there is still that element of competition. I shot IPSC for years but recently became disenchanted by the spirit of it all. IDPA isn't like that, every match I've been to I've had a blast and I haven't come across the race mentality/ high pressure for scoring that I saw in IPSC.[/b]

              JP,

              Thanks for the input. I almost referred him that way, but I haven't actually shot a match so I was hoping somebody would chime in.

              Anybody else shot IDPA?
              "Do the right thing even if it means dying like a dog when no one's there to see you do it." Vice Admiral James Stockdale, NAVY PILOT

              "Honor, Integrity, Commitment to core values. When they become abstract concepts or "ideals", all is lost." Me.

              "Character is doing the right thing, even when no one is looking." J.C. Watts

              "I have never seen a projectile turn in flight and come back at the ship that fired it, I cannot however make that same statement regarding missiles." Me.

              Deus lo vult! = "God wills it!"

              Comment


              • #8
                I shoot IPSC and IDPA, like 'em both. I prefer IPSC because the round counts are higher (more shootin') and in IDPA they limit the distance that a shooter is allowed to move in a stage. In IPSC, they can have you move as far as they want to. I really prefer "run n' gun" stages, so I prefer IPSC.

                No matter what type of comp you go to, you'll pick up good skills that can help you in the "real world". Speed, accuracy, shooting on the move, reloads, thinking and sometimes changing plans while firing, all the comps have these.

                I don't believe that any one comp is more like "real life" than another, until they have targets that shoot back that is! They are all fake, contrived and fantastical. I've shot IDPA matches where I've had to carry a briefcase in one hand during an entire stage, while moving and shooting. I can't fit anything in a briefcase that I won't immediately drop on the ground if I have to draw my pistol, so that was not "realistic" to me. I didn't care though......it's a Match, not Real Life.

                Shoot 'em all and see what you like. Don't look at any of them like they are realistic training for real world scenarios, because none of them are. Just have a good time and practice your fundamental skills.
                www.precision-applications.com

                It's knowing that when I get up in the morning and my feet hit the floor, the Devil says, "Shit! He's awake!"

                Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."

                "There are so many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find room to bury them all?" - anonymous Finnish soldier

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you for the info and links JPBeck, I appreciate that! Thank you too CMShoot, the dual perspective you have on it by shooting both event is a big help in figuring out which way to go.

                  Since posting the question, I've read both rulebooks and I'm more leaning toward IDPA at the moment. I am more attracted to their philosophy in staying out of the equipment race. I've already got one very nasty habit like that (precision rifle) and don't want to find myself doubling or tripling the costs of my handgun adding bells and whistles. My main goal here is go have fun banging steel and shooting in a context that will let me do some blasting, with the secondary goal of adding some faster and more effective gunhandling and shoot/move to my handgun skills.

                  I guess I should look at some sort of effective concealment rigs first anyway. The same gun can serve both purposes for me, especially at my skill level, and the relatively small amount of extra money later for an OWB style holster for the USPSA/IPSC stuff isn't going to kill me, and I'll go watch some of the events and see which one appeals before dumping money into a second rig.

                  Thanks again guys, and any additional comments and suggestions are welcome.
                  Ed

                  The beatings will continue until morale improves.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Want to watch real world shooting? Come on down to Ft. Benning the first weekend in Dec. We will be shooting the annual 3 gun match that weekend. Can't wait!

                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Does anyone here shoot IDPA in Southern California?
                      "Ever since I was a kid I've had snakes as pets. They're clean and quiet. You give them rodents and they give you pure, unconditional indifference." Carl Hiaasen

                      "The Constitution is NOT and instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

                      "War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner." ? Cormac McCarthy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [quote]
                        Want to watch real world shooting? Come on down to Ft. Benning the first weekend in Dec. We will be shooting the annual 3 gun match that weekend. Can't wait!

                        Steve[/b]
                        Thanks for the heads up, Steve, but my schedule for that week is already jammed, in a good way. I already have two precision rifle matches, one on Nov 30th, the other on Dec 7th. Since I'm running rifles for both my daughter and I, I suspect I'll have my hands full in between. To further complicate matters, our rifle deer season opens on the 29th and runs through the 13th, so the next few weeks will be a juggling feat.
                        Ed

                        The beatings will continue until morale improves.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I do IDPA at three different clubs here in Southern Ca.
                          "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time."
                          Leo Tolstoy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I shoot a ton of competition and I know that Shep guy too .I was there to watch him smoothly win the State champ title. Now if he could only shoot like that all the time.I shoot USPSA,IDPA,3 gun,Tactical rifle. Whatever there is that weekend I am shooting somewhere. But I shoot every weekend somewhere. I look at it as a sort of training. The combat triad consists of Marksmanship,Gunhandling and Tactics. Two of those are very prevalent in competition. Tactics....not so much. One could argue "Speed" is a tactic.....but thats about as far as I would go for the "Tactics" side of the triad. Gunhandling and Marksmanship are weighed heavily in competition. Real world it is not and probably never will be. But the skills necessary to compete and win in competition definitely serve to keep those necessary skills sharp that are viable in the real world. Competition has made me a better shooter by far.

                            As for gear.....The only piece of gear I do not use for CCW in the real world is my CR Speed Belt in USPSA. I use Comp-Tac kydex gear for USPSA and IDPA. IDPA does not allow the use of the CR Speed belts. I shoot a Glock 34 in SSP class in IDPA and the same gun in USPSA Production class.
                            I use 5 single mag pouches in Production and 2 in SSP. I use the same straight drop belt holster from Comp-Tac in both games. The difference is the CR Speed belt.

                            As for retention on the Comp-Tac holster. There is only friction(adj) but it has held my gun through several rigorous competitions.
                            It's better to learn it now,on the range;rather than at night,in the rain,in the middle of a gunfight. "Pete Harbeck"

                            Speed is Fine,Accuracy is final....but accurate hits at extremely high speed is final much faster. "Tod Litt"

                            Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              JPBeck hit it on the head, and other excellent points by the others such as CMShoot and Bullitt.

                              My only 2 cents is that if you only want it for CCW training, IDPA is an excellent choice and you CAN use simply your carry gear. That's if you don't care one iota about getting beaten every week by others you know you're better than. When I shot IDPA, there was a guy at my local club that shot his G19 from a CompTac IWB holster tucked in the back of his pants, and covered by a shirt. He shot every week EXACTLY the way he carried. He got pretty fast at drawing...but there is no question that others with lesser skills made better scores than him overall because they had a faster holster that was quicker to get to, less "cover" to remove, more controllable pistols (full size), and easier to reach / less concealed spare magazines. Half a second times 5-8 stages made him "lose" to lesser shooters regularly.

                              But he practiced every week just like he carried in the real world every day. EXCELLENT training, didn't care about score.

                              One other thing...yes IDPA is closer range. But more realistic distances in a CCW defense situations (15 yards and less). If the bad guy is more than 10 or 15 yards away...you better be RUNNING to get the heck outta dodge. Most people can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside at those distances anyway.
                              Americans sleep well in their beds, because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm them.

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