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    Guys due to my work schedule I cant shoot rifle matches. I work weekend night shift. A range near me runs IPSC every wed. Can I leran anything usefull running the IPSC game?

  • #2
    Sure - you can learn how to shoot IPSC matches. But what it is that you'd like to learn?
    On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas


    • #3
      I've attended several different types of pistol matches. You can practice some very good skills their, but you can also pick up some bad habits that have no place in a real world gun fight.

      With that said, they are lots of fine. I have shot several with my duty handgun, my on-duty rig I wear and duty loads. I don't worry so much about how I place, but I run the course the way that my training and tactics say it should be run and chalk it up to practice and trigger time.

      It's knowing that when I get up in the morning and my feet hit the floor, the Devil says, "Shit! He's awake!"

      Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."

      "There are so many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find room to bury them all?" - anonymous Finnish soldier


      • #4
        thanks guys.

        I know a little baout pistol skills. I just need to shoot something.


        What bad skills do I need to be wary of in IPSC? nobody has IDPA during the week


        • #5
          I may not be the best person to ask about IPSC, as I have not shot it since about '94. I guess I was mainly speaking of Action Pistol and some of the IDPA-related comps I have attended.

          I have seen some of the top competitors intentionally skipping a target because they would rather take a 5 second penalty than "waste" time trying to hit a difficult shot. In essence, they are moving along and leaving a threat un-neutralized behind them.

          Also, a lot of the shooters would rather shoot blazingly fast and hit C's and D's on the IPSC target. Their speed can more than make up for the lower scores of these peripheral hits. I can't afford to shoot like that in my line of work. I shoot slower and don't settle for anything lower than a B.

          On some stages they allow you to start at a ready position, not from the holster. I always start from the holster, even if I have an option, and I always shoot and reload from concealed carry, with a covering garment over my pistol holster and mag pouches. This is how I work, so this is how I train.

          I have seen folks crowd their cover, extend past their cover and even stand at least partially exposed from their cover when engaging targets.

          One of the good things that you can get out of comps is shooting unfamiliar courses of fire and thinking on your feet. I enjoy them for this reason and use them for practice. I have placed well enough in several comps to win stuff, but that's not what I'm there for.

          Give it a shot (pun intended) and see what you think. I can hook ya up with some of the places where I have shot, and I'll meet you there and shoot with ya if you like.

          It's knowing that when I get up in the morning and my feet hit the floor, the Devil says, "Shit! He's awake!"

          Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."

          "There are so many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find room to bury them all?" - anonymous Finnish soldier


          • #6
            Go shoot it. You'll learn more about shooting a handgun under stress there than you ever will at Quals and most LE training. Tactics might not be the same but you'll gets lots of gun handling practice. Contrary to some common opinions IDPA is a game and there are aspects of it that will get you just as dead on the street. The difference between the 2 sports is the level of skill needed. The IPSC guys are much better skilled in general. You'll learn to get fast hits on the target which is what really counts on the street. Lots of people are under the misconception that IPSC is all speed and hosing. BS at least if you want to win. You better be shooting A's and only a couple C's or your toast.


            • #7
              I have competed IPSC for a few years and learned some very good skills. One of which is reflex fire. When the S%^T hits the fan, I doubt that you will be focusing on the sights of your pistol. You are going to point it at the target and pull the trigger. I have found out that when under a little stress most people can't hit the side of a barn. If you train for reflex fire you will become more comfortable with reflex fire and the bullet will go where you want it to.

              Train as you Fight

              "Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
              Frederick The Great

              "They've got us surrounded again, those poor bastards." Colonel Creighton Abrams

              "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Napoleon Bonaparte

              "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
              Gen George S. Patton Jr.


              • #8
                You must remember that IPSC is a game. It is not intended to teach real world tactics. But, I've never shot an IPSC match where you started from the ready position.
                What I picked up most from shooting IPSC and now sniper comps is that the "stress" fire simulated at rifle comps by putting time limitations on the events is almost non-existent. In IPSC every 0.01 second counts. When I started shooting these sniper comps and they told me I had 2 minutes or 4 minutes to complete a stage, that felt like an eternity. Although sometimes that isn't enought time.


                • #9
                  I'm sorry to hear that cmshoot evidently wasn't all that impressed with his I.P.S.C. experiences cause as far as I'm concerned mine were fantastic.

                  I agree with cmshoots observations regarding that MOST competitors do not always employ proper use of tactical cover as they are testing each others skills of pistolcraft in a "Timed Event"...where competitors do all they can to trim seconds off their elapsed times...with a scoring system that rewards only speed and accuracy and not for making good use of, and no points offered for taking hard for the most part it's a test of balls out, give it everything you got "Speed & Accuracy".

                  Now that said???....Many inventive and imaginitive I.P.S.C. approved stages of fire have "Taking Manditory Hard Cover Shooting Positions" incorporated into these stages of fire via the use of "Props".....and many of these props "assume" hard cover....where as the shooter runs from one shooting station to the an attempt to negotiate the course of fire as quickly and effectively as safely possible he/she encounters a wide variety of "Constrained Shooting Positions"...whereas....3'X3' 2x4 boxes are placed on the ground and the shooters feet must remain in the box for every shot fired and once that station is complete they run to the next station where they may be required to assume a prone position and engage their respective targets from under a wooden firring strip held up by stakes a mere few inches off the ground and in many instances the shooter may hafta roll on their side to accomplish this...then as they hastily hoist themselves from the ground the next station may involve engaging their targets through a hollowed out 55gal. drum laid sideways at knee level....only to continue on to "The House"...a maze of 2x4 studded, plywood sheathed walls laced with portals, doorways and hallways where "No-Shoot" targets may be arranged to simulate hostage situations but while cover is rarely if ever mindfully taken by any competitor??? is "ASSUMED" by the very props which dictate some extremely limited and confining shooting positions in negotiating a given stage of fire.

                  And while it dose not pose any "Life-or-Death" threat unto any competitor???....this game we play garnerede favor with the F.B.I. a few decades back and they adopted a modified version of our I.P.S.C. format as a tactical training aid for their agents.

                  For me the only "Turn-Off" in my personal I.P.S.C. experiences was what I'd refer to as the "Keeping Up With The Jonses Arms Race" as I grew to have a great distain for what I termed to be "Atari Guns"....they were extremely expensive to afford and maintain and were anything but "PRACTICAL" (as the International Practical Shooting Conferderation Namesake might imply) as...I saw NOTHING "practical" about a minimalistic rig that leaves ones pistol and mags almost wholey exposed to the elements with rather precarious rention systems...nor did I agree with any pistol that utilized battery powered sighting systems which required that one first "Turn It On" LOL!!! I saw absolutely nothing "Practical" nor "Tactical" about honing ones pistolcraft skills with such..just the I began to loath them for what they represented...which to me was...High $$$ Gear Making Up For Shooter Inability...I myself started out with somewhat of an "Atari Gun" the form of a Glock 24 Longslide .40 S&W with ported barrel and a huge Beer Can Red-Dot Sight of a Tasco PDP4...and shot it in "Open Class" till I realized that reality dictated that I would never, ever use such a rig in a practical/tactical fashion/situation and then instead???...opted to "Get Real" and back to basics by giving up the "Open Class" entirely and competing soley with a "Real Gun" LOL!!!....Digressing and immersing myself as a dedcated "Limited Class" shooter...where the rules were/are..."Iron Sights Only and Just 1 Hole In Your Barrel" LOL!!!! know...."Tactical"....and..."Practical"!!!LOL!!! A pistiol that w2ould foster skills you may need and use in a real live tactical situation!!!...and not just an "Atrai Game Gun".LOL!!!

                  I've seen all sorts of funny $hit in my many years of competeing in hundreds of I.P.S.C. competitions....Can't tell ya how many times I've witnessed an early morning, first stage of fire, open class competitor take his place in the box only to hear the start buzzer, then execute a nanosecond draw only to stand there frozen and not firing any rounds cause...He Forgot To Turn His Battery Powered Red-Dot Sight On!!!! LOL!!!....or....Upon Drawing accidently slapping the palm of their off hand against the Huge Competition Extended Mag Release Button only to have their high-cap fully loaded mag spit itself out to hit the dirt between their own two feet with one shot fired!!! LOL!!!....Or The best one I saw was a dude with an open classer who didn't get a firm grip as his first shot fired out of his overly compensated barrel sent his pistol twirling on his finger and woud up poited right back at his own silly @$$ self!!! LOL!!!...(BTW...He was DQ'ed for the day immediately after that) but....

                  Three things I know for certain....

                  1. If you hung with the I.P.S.C. crowd for a period of one year you would learn more and become more proficiently skilled in pistolcraft than any one man on his own could become if afforded 10 lifetimes to do so. (There's lotsa highly skilled and knowledgable folks out there readily willing to share their experience with those willing to listen and learn)

                  2. It's A Freaking Blast To Participate In!!!


                  3. God help any three averagly trained men who hafta face off with even just a moderately skilled and experienced I.P.S.C. Shooter.

                  In my years of I.P.S.C. competition I never passed up the opportunity to invite any L.E.O.'s I ever met in passing to attend and figuring who needs to depend on their pistolcraft more than them right???...he11...after day my very life may depend on how well they can handle their sidearm...and I gotta tell ya...most were receptive and actually attended...but unfortunately most of those who did???...only did so once...maybe for many it was a shocking eye opener as to just how inefficient they actually were...however...of those L.E.O.'s who choose to stick with it???....many of them actually went on to become state and national level champions...but they were few by comparison.

                  I sorta bailed back when I.D.P.A. came me this was a group borne of the A.W.B. magazine capacity limitations....the first to cator to the late comers who were now stuck between competeing with 10 RD mags or shelling out as much as $150ea for pre-ban gear...many in the I.P.S.C. Organization suggested and pushed for mandating self imposed 10 round mag limitations in the name of fair play....but it didn't take affect quickly enough and along came the I.D.P.A.

                  The chest pounding between I.P.S.C. & I.D.P.A. organizations of who had the better "Tactical/Practical" format soon followed....destroying much of the unity shared by competitors of such...with many local level run and operated I.P.S.C. clubs enduring a loss of membership and partcipation as a notable percentage of I.P.S.C. members migrated too and new shooters were drawn to I.D.P.A. Clubs and marked losses of I.P.S.C. funding were inncurred....hence the affordability of props and targets became an issue for local level I.P.S.C. clubs and the overall experience began to rapidly degrade...then one day while attending a gun show I was looking at a (then new) Kydex holster for my pistol and when I opted not to purchase it the dealer asked why...and when I poited out a feature on that particular holster that wasn't acceptable or approved for I.P.S.C. competition the dude literally went off on me...almost screaming at me that...

                  "You I.P.S.C. Shooters are all alike!!!...When are you people gonna wake up and realize what Real Tactical Shooting Is All About!!! JOIN THE I.D.P.A. and learn how to Shoot Fer Kristsake!!!!"....

                  And did so in a fashion that got the attention of serveral other surrounding patrons attending that gun show looking over to see how I'd respond to his verbal thrashing...and my eyes welled up realizing what things had come to...the end of what had been many years of shooting fun for in a quiet controlled voice I replied...

                  "You just gaurenteed two things here being that I'll never advise anyone else nor myself to ever attend or join the I.D.P.A. organization and two???...I was gonna purchase several of those sweet kydex mag pouches ya got there but after that tongue thrashing you just gave me??....No Sale!!!"

                  Then turned my back and walked away as he muttered some obscenities at me...and that's when I knew the fun was over and between the AWB and the apparent and glarring levels of anomosity between the I.P.S.C. & I.D.P.A. organizations with both struggling to survive and topped off with one encounter with an @$$hole dealer at a gun show???........I bailed. As it was apparent that I already saw my best days of competeing in any organized pistol competitions...but I hope things have changed since as that was about 6 years ago...but if you've never tried it yourself???....I'd highly recomend at least participating in a few matchs is fun as he11!!! LOL!!!

                  L8R, Bill.
                  I have no "SIGNATURE" and I've worked hard to keep it that way.