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22nd - July 31st, 2004

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  • #16
    I think that most LE snipers see the need of training and having dope beyond 200 yards. I think for most of us though it comes down to what facillities do we have access to for practice. All of the agencies in my area are restricted to 200 yards or less,so we kinda have to work with what we have.
    The loudest sound your weapon can make is CLICK. Remember to press check.

    Your worst nightmare is just another day at the office for me.

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    • #17
      After about 5 days, the poll shows 253 for and 30 against
      Knowledge comes from retaining what is learned,
      Thomas

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      • #18
        [/b]

        Really makes you wonder what the reasoning against it is,doesn't it?
        The loudest sound your weapon can make is CLICK. Remember to press check.

        Your worst nightmare is just another day at the office for me.

        Comment


        • #19
          Everyone has given some great comments on this topic. I personally feel that training is 50% mental. Like many of you have said, long distance shooting builds confidence. The same goes for all aspects of training. PT for example. I can be in shape with out pushing myself to run a mile in 6 minutes or less but mentally if I continue to do that I know my body can be pushed farther than that junkie I may be fighting with. Just my 2 cents...
          I don't have time to bleed

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          • #20
            Excellent topic! I too, am not a sniper. I'm a target shooter. I generally do BR but also enjoy BBR as well as the vendor shoots when they are available. My goal is 5 rounds, 1 ragged hole. My record, and I do have a pic I can scan in, is .209". Not bad... H&K's shoot last year was really excellent and forced us to use all the shooting positions except for BR. Just as well since those are my weaknesses. Pushing our limits and successfully expanding on them is what it's all about, am I right?

            But to LEO: I'm rather split on the issue. What's the scenario? You certainly aren't going to deal with a hostage situation from 500 yards, correct? I think it's safe to say that most scenarios are going to be at less than 200 yards, probably less than 100.

            Does that mean you can't train for what you probably won't do? Absolutely not! Why did I go to the H&K shoot? Because I needed to. Can your organization fund such activities? I don't know. Will they even allow you to engage in those activities on your own time and then let you put those (unsanctioned) skills to use on the odd chance those skills are needed? Probably not. Someone up the chain is going to be more worried about a lawsuit than the problem at hand, and perhaps rightly so. Jury awards are retarded and totally out of touch with reality. If I was hit and maimed by an errant round well...take a look...would I want to be recompensed? Sure. But to the tune of 100 Million dollars? Gimme a break! The lawyer gets most of it. Plus Uncle Sam. So I'm definitely split on the issue. What you may know and are capable of may not be allowed, simple as that. and there's both good reasons and bad.

            I'm also reminded of an LEO sniper that took a good shot and saved the life of an infant. But he also took an unfair, though funny, shot at the rest of you. Noting all the high tech gear, tactical scopes, laser rangerfinders, guys shooting out to 800 and 1000 yards, etc, he observed in the average LEO sniper shooting that, "Dude, it's 40 yards across the street." The man was right, even if he was an arrogant prick about it. Ummm. I sure hope that shooter is not a member...no offense intended, just my observation -Rod-
            USAPatriot's America Forum <<--New Location, New Database!

            Registered Democrat Republican Yeehadi

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            • #21
              I want to incorporate a handful of quotes from an article that just came out in Tactical Response Magazine. http://www.trmagonline.com/ The article in about “Choosing A Sniper School,” by my long time polar opposite, Derrick Bartlett. For years, I have been working to bring the community together in one way and he has been working at it 180 degrees the other way. Derrick Bartlett is also the appointed president of the American Sniper Association. As a side note, the article mentioned at the beginning of this topic is written by another officer in the ASA. Can you start to see the mindset of the organization?

              Enough with the back ground, lets show everyone here how the ASA views things.

              “As important as it is for snipers to receive training, it is equally important to make wise choices in obtaining that training.”[/b]
              “Do not allow yourself to be impressed by a slick Web site, fancy catalog or grandiose claims.* Advertising is meant to generate business.* There is no obligation, legal, moral, or otherwise to honestly portray the product.* Look beneath the covers and read between the lines.”*[/b]
              “Find out who the school teaches.* A number of schools are open to law enforcement, military, and “qualified civilians.”* If they open their classes to civilians, you will have to make a decision as to whether or not you want your personnel to attend.”[/b]
              “This is not meant to be a fantasy camp.* This should be a place of police (or military) orientated training, where sensitive information can be openly discussed.* Tactics and operational issues don’t need to be taught to people outside of the community.* Civilians wouldn’t be tolerated in a class of motor officers, or in street survival course.* Why should a different level of privacy be expected for a sniper school?* This is usually a financial issue for the school in question.”[/b]
              It is no secrete that we have a Duty Only section here at Sniper’s Paradise. We have this section set aside for the discussion on tactics as well as other sensitive information. But you can see that we have three times as many open forums as we do restricted ones. We believe that there can be a good balance between keeping operational tactics to a need to know basis, while including everyone in the general discipline of precision and tactical rifle. Trying to balance the needs of both is difficult at times, but we are willing to make the sacrifices that are required to try to achieve it. While on the other side of the coin, there are groups that want to take the Art of Sniping and hide it in a dark room and surround it with police caution tape. Those who dare to open the door and shed light on the subject are swept to the side and cut down from within. You decide which is right, which is wrong, or what is an acceptable compromise.
              Knowledge comes from retaining what is learned,
              Thomas

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              • #22
                “Find out who the school teaches.Â* A number of schools are open to law enforcement, military, and “qualified civilians.”Â* If they open their classes to civilians, you will have to make a decision as to whether or not you want your personnel to attend.”[/b]
                it aint rocket science. I am not LEO but shoot with 3+ active police snipers regularly. Shooting at longer ranges is also a confidence deal. You can hit a 1 MOA target out to 800 yards. That really builds confidence in the shooter skill, within himself and with his peers. Keeping this secret only adds to the "black mask" consiracy folks out there. Just becuase a school is open to civilians does not equate to bad teaching.

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                • #23
                  Final Stats:

                  Should a police sniper practice at distances further than 200 yards?

                  No, a police sniper will never take a shot beyond 200 yards. votes: 32 (6.08%)

                  No, a police sniper will probably never take a shot that far. votes: 22 (4.18%)

                  Yes, a police sniper should be prepared for anything that might come up. votes: 461 (87.64%)

                  Unsure votes: 11 (2.09%)
                  Knowledge comes from retaining what is learned,
                  Thomas

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