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  • Come-up cards

    Can anyone explain to me what is a come-up card, how do I make one and test it.

    This is a new concept to us.

    P.S. If anyone knows how to read a mirage accurately or know where we can find the info on it, please let me know.

    Castos

  • #2
    I don,t use a come up card per say. A data book is easier to record and reference shot data. I do have a "cheat sheet" with come ups on the inside of my Butler Creek scope cover. As for mirage, all mirage does is tell me there is wind. I get more idea of speed and direction from other indicaters such as leaves, grass, butterflies, ect. No deserts in NJ, in deserts you can watch the dust. I have resently found a wind calculater for .308 called Wind Swag.com, I am still playing with it but so far it looks pretty good. SM out.

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    • #3
      The best way, I have found, to make a come-up card is to purchase a ballistics program. Put in the data and it will print out your come-ups. Put this on a card. I use a data book and a come-up card as a reference. I then use the military formulas for ranging, change in temperature, altitude etc.

      Tom

      [ 05-14-2002, 09:14: Message edited by: Thomas W Bruner ]
      T.Bruner

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      • #4
        They're just a list of the adjustments needed to hit your target at a given range. You'll need to find your muzzle velocity and the type of bullet you plan to use.

        Then go to a good reference, like a reloading manual or an internet site to find the amount of drop you can expect from this round. I've been playing with JBM's Ballistics Trajectory Page for a while. Can't give it a thumbs up or down yet. It does have an MOA function which cuts down on the number crunching.

        From there, you find the number of clicks needed to compensate for the bullet's drop at the target's range.

        The card can be a very simple list of adjustments for elevation and windage, or you can add things like hold offs, leads, etc.

        You can also buy some "pre-made" tables, which can save some "Math Headaches". Dean Michaelis has some very advanced data tables for some popular cartridges in the ELR area of this website. If they're anything like his book, they're pretty thorough. His "course" takes alot of variables into consideration, and the book gives examples of correction factors for most any variable that could effect a shot...down to the Earth's rotation!!

        There is also the Ballisticard System ,which has got good reviews.

        As for mirage, there's not really much to say except practice. A search on this site can give you some ideas, but the best advice I found was to get your spotting cope and some wind flags in a field at least 200 yds long and learn what the stuff looks like when the wind is playing. That way, you'll remember it when you see it again.

        Hope this long winded diatribe helps.

        Reagrds,
        S.

        [ 05-14-2002, 09:42: Message edited by: echo3mike ]
        God, Country, Corps!

        Por Libertate Patriae

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        • #5
          Hey, Tom...

          What formulas are you using? Or better yet, what's your source?

          TIA

          Regards,
          S.
          God, Country, Corps!

          Por Libertate Patriae

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          • #6
            My first source was training at the MTU, Quantico. The second was the first edition of the USMC FM1-3b, the precursor of the 1969 USMC Sniping FM1-3b. Next was practice.

            The best source I have found for civilians as far a formulas is "The Military and Police Sniper" by Mike Lau.

            I also have the army sniper manual, which you can print out from this site, John Plaster's "The Ultimate Sniper", the 1989 FMFM1-3b USMC Sniping, formulas used by Navy Seal snipers and quite a collection of books on the subject.

            It takes a lot of training and study in the use of formulas, holdoffs, MOA come-ups, changes in temperature and altitude, angle shooting. It can get quite complicated. So I would recommend starting with Mike Lau's book and go from there.
            ]http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=%22The+Military+and+Police+Sniper%22&hc=0& hs=0[/url]
            Tom

            [ 05-14-2002, 23:32: Message edited by: Thomas W Bruner ]
            T.Bruner

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            • #7
              Hoe gaan dit, Castos? Here's a link to the a review of the Schwiebert Ballisticards:
              http://www.snipercountry.com/Ballisticard.htm
              They use the Sierra Infinity program (which you can get at www.sinclairintl.com for $37.50) to elaborate these cards, so I just prefer to chrono my own ammo and calculate these cards for each load and caliber I use. I highly recommend this program.

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              • #8
                I don't think I saw it mentioned, if it was, my appoligies to the person who wrote it. Anyway, any balistics program or card MUST BE CHECKED ON THE RANGE. You cannot go off of what the card says exactly, you have to confirm and change it.

                Hanzo
                "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

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                • #9
                  I agree 100% with Hanzo. Any come up card should be made by YOU with results from YOUR rifle with whatever ammo you are using. You can't just punch numbers in a computer and think it's going to work perfectly in any weather or temperature. You have to go out and shoot the conditions, log them in your log book, and then make up the card for your rifle/ammo combo. The ballistic programs and printed charts in the book mentioned, which is a good book to have, will get you close and probably on paper but they should definately be checked and not just looked at as gospel.

                  There are little short cuts that usually work like if the temp changes +/- 20 degrees the POI will change 1 MOA up or down depending on the direction of the temp change. This is a guide line and might work with your rifle/ammo but needs to be checked. You might only move 1/2 MOA or not at all in colder temps. Any good logbook will have a section for putting in your zero data under different temps so you can look back quickly at it.
                  Rob

                  www.teamblaster.net

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                  • #10
                    As I said in my post, a come-up card produced by a computer is a reference. It is not gospel. It should be adjusted as you go to the range and test it. Also keep a data book and know how to compensate for temperature, altitude, humidity, mirage moving your target, and any other changing conditions such as light etc.

                    Tom
                    T.Bruner

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                    • #11
                      I understood that Thomas and I hope you didn't think I was bagging on you because I wasn't. I know that you know what you're talking about. I just wanted to make the point for Castos seeing as he's new to the game that any info you get either from books or programs needs to be checked on the rifle you're shooting.
                      Rob

                      www.teamblaster.net

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                      • #12
                        RobO1,

                        No problem. I just wanted to make my post more clear.

                        Tom
                        T.Bruner

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for the help, I now have an idea on what to do and will test it on the range.
                          To Tirogfijo- Baie Dankie vir die help.

                          Castos

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                          • #14
                            Posting into a data book AND having a sticky backed bit of paper inside the rear scope cover really helps. Just make sure its the data for the MAIN round you will use . Believe me, I have screwed myself by changing bullets and powder and then trying to shoot with wrong info. Definitely a quick way to "bolo".

                            I have some ready made circles that I printed up with ranges and then pencil in the comeups. Since I am not using a commom load & a shorter barrel I have to do all the work ups to fit my rifle. Worth the effort.
                            Later,
                            Will

                            "No Good Deed ever goes un-punished and 1,000 atta-boys can and will be wiped out by 1 Aw-Crap"

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